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Comment by fiftyacorn | Hacker News Reader

Vera drake. It's about a woman who does abortions when it was illegal in UK. She is caught and ends up in jail.

It shows whatever your stance on abortion that making it illegal doesn't stop it and is risky for women

The film also shows the hypocrisy of the well off woman who can still get an abortion. While the poor can't access this

Finally when the film was released it struggled in America as people expected Vera drake to get off, but she ends up in jail. As the director says this is how it works in real life

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This is also one of the reasons I am very liberal when it comes to illegal substances.

Lots of people will get them anyway, it is just more expensive and risky.

Same goes for euthanasia (while we have liberal abortion laws in France, for style reasons we still need to drive or fly to Belgium, Netherlands or Switzerland for euthanasia)

> Lots of people will get them anyway

Lots of people will get away with rape and murder (including abortion), this does not justify society tolerating it.

Rape is objectively evil towards others. Murder as well (exceptions apply).

Abortion is a matter of personal beliefs, one may be lucky to live in a place where this is left to the individual woman.

Euthanasia or suicide generally speaking is strictly individual. I am on charge of my life and nobody else should be able to dictate me what to do with it. Assisted suicide avoids trauma to others, such as when someone jumps in front of a train . Not allowing it is psychopathic torture (you force someone to suffer because of your own personal views)

> Murder as well

Murder is always wrong. Killing is not.

> Abortion is a matter of personal beliefs, one may be lucky to live in a place where this is left to the individual woman.

No it's murder plain and simple. Dehumanizing the unborn child is the same tatica slave holders make to justify enslaving people.

> Euthanasia or suicide generally speaking is strictly individual.

Euthanasia is not individual. You are asking someone else to murder you. You cannot consent to be murdered or cannibalized.

Suffering is not objectively evil. I suffer the when the dentist gives me a filling. This is morally right because I have a duty to care for my body. Drilling my teeth to simply excite is wrong. Similarly with Euthanasia it is never right be cause you are asking someone to murder you which is always wrong.

> one may be lucky to live in a place where this is left to the individual woman.

"Lucky" if you're the woman in this scenario; not so lucky if you're the unborn child.

The cells amalgamate you mean.

But this is obviously a discussion which will not lead to anything constructive. Like I said I am happy to have the freedom of choice thanks to Ms Veil and the women who fought for that.

If an unborn child is a "cells amalgamate" then maybe you are too. Anyway, the fact that you're happy to have that "freedom of choice" seems like a classic case of survivorship bias.

> It shows whatever your stance on abortion that making it illegal doesn't stop it

That’s not an argument. Making homicide illegal does not stop serial killers, is this a good reason for legalizing homicide?

I am not taking a side on the dispute, but: are you in favor of abortion? Then just say openly that, according to your system of values, a fetus of N months can be rightfully killed, for some value of N.

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