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Comment by xhrpost | Hacker News Reader

A bit of a rant, but could be worth getting some input. Coming from mostly a Windows background, it feels like Mac's despite all these shortcuts, still don't have "alt-tab" working properly. The equivalent on Mac is Command-tab, but it doesn't work when going from a desktop app (ie, not maximized) to a maximized window. I can go the other direction just fine, and between maximized windows, but choosing a max window from a desktop app just does nothing.

Am I using it "wrong"? Should I only use maxed windows or only desktop un-maxed windows and not both at the same time? I've googled this multiple times and found little help.

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"Command" + "~" will switch between windows of the app currently in focus.

Not the same behavior as Alt-Tab, but together with Command+Tab it works well.

If you hold Command down after doing Command+Tab, you can also use "~" and "Tab" to select the app to the left or right in the list of recent apps.

""Command" + "~" will switch between windows of the app currently in focus."

Yes, but not properly, with memory ... C-Tab (like we expect, everywhere) will let you rapidly cycle back and forth between the two apps you are using - no matter where they are/were in the stack when you first C-Tab'd over.

However, C-` forces you to move through the entire stack for every switch. If your app-window is eight windows away, you need to go 16 spaces/slots to switch back and forth.

This has always been the case and, IMO, is actually a bug. It suggests that Apple employees don't use their systems like this because they wouldn't put up with it for one day if they did.

Is there an option to enable this? I have two Chrome windows maximized but Command + ~ doesn't seem to switch between them when focused on one.

Thanks, I did not know about that last one. I've been instinctively using Cmd-Shift-Tab for that, which is a little awkward to execute.

I didn't know this either! I'll probably continue using shift as it's engrained in me from browsers where ctrl+tab and ctrl+shift+tab cycle through open tabs forwards and backwards.

I literally just used Cmd-Tab to switch back and forth between this desktop Safari window and a full screen Slack window, so it's clearly possible. :)

And, I just confirmed my suspicion: if you want this behavior, go to System Preferences > Mission Control, and check the box for "When switching to an application, switch to a Space with open windows for an application". With that unchecked macOS behaves the way you're describing; with it checked it behaves the way I'm describing.

Wow, thanks! Surprised this isn't the default behavior.

I am, too. When I read this, I thought, "Wait, it does do that," followed by "...maybe I changed some setting somewhere for this."

I've been using Macs for years, and I agree. It is infuriating that I can tab away from an application, and then be unable to tab immediately back to it. I'm at a loss why this is missing. It is the workflow between apps when they are not maximized or minimized. I fail to see any utility in breaking that flow for minimized and maximized windows.

I am unaware of any key combination that can restore a minimized window, or restore focus to a full screen window. Surly they exist though, so if anyone here knows what they are please do tell.

To restore a minimized window, cmd-tab to that app, then control-down arrow to show all the windows of the app, then use the arrow keys to select that window (minimized windows are smaller at the bottom), then return to open it.

Thanks!

But also wow, just wow.

Oh, wait. I just tried and it turns out you can simply use the up down arrow keys once you've tabbed to the app. Neither control or option keys are required just keep holding command and then use the arrow keys. Who knew?!

Not perfect but better than nothing (which is what I had before).

Hmm, doesn't seem to do anything for me. I tried with both maximized and desktop windows (multiples of the same app, Chrome and VSCode) but pressing down just results in the app selector bar disappearing.

Your experience had been the same as mine. I bought this program a couple years ago and haven't looked back - https://contexts.co/.

However, it seems it may not support the latest MacOS builds. Actually I just checked their Twitter page and saw they said it supports Mojave, so maybe it does.

Happy Contexts user on latest Catalina here. Works like a charm and even raises a Finder window with cmd-tab switching unlike the native switching.

I use contexts too but my only gripe is that it doesn't recognize PWAs like YouTube Music, whereas native command tab does.

+1 for contexts. It works pretty well and is a lot better than the native switcher.

The trick is to stop using full-screen maximized windows. If you hold down Option when clicking the green maximize button you can make windows maximized the old-fashioned way, where cmd-tab behavior makes sense. You can also bind global keyboard shortcuts to this action. I use cmd-shift-up. I also bind cmd-shift-left and cmd-shift-right to fill the left/right 50% of the screen.

Beyond cmd-tab working sensibly, you also get the advantage of not having annoying sliding animations when switching maximized windows. You can mitigate the animation somewhat for full-screen windows in accessibility options (it’s an effect of a “Reduce animations” checkbox or something like that) but it only turns it from sliding to a faster fade — there’s no way to make it instantaneous like non-full-screen window switching is.

Unfortunately, maximized windows and full screen windows are not equivalent, and there are plenty of contexts in which fullscreen is what is required (virtual desktop, distraction free mode, graphics apps, etc. etc). Maximized windows retain the window bar, and if you don't have auto hide enabled on the dock or menu bar they will remain as well taking up screen real estate unnecessarily.

Even easier is just to double click the header bar. Will maximize the same way as option+click the green dot.

I've been using Mac for a couple of years, before that Windows and Linux and have to say that the bottom task bar (as in Windows 95 and Gnome 2) is easily the best window management paradigm I've used. The best implementation is Gnome 2 / MATE because you can switch windows with the mouse wheel when the cursor is on the task bar.

Switching between tabs in a web browser is a very similar UX problem - and browsers got it right. Imagine that you would have to switch tabs in your browser using like you switch between windows in Mac OS. It sounds horrible. And the W95 style task bar is even better than browser tab bar because it's at the bottom of the screen so you don't have to position the cursor vertically.

> W95 style task bar is even better than browser tab bar because it's at the bottom of the screen so you don't have to position the cursor vertically

Famously, MS managed to bungle that by putting a pixel of dead space at the bottom of the screen.

I had the exact same problem you are describing. Unfortunately, I never found a good answer on "how to do it right".

In the end, third party apps mostly fixed the problem for me. Hyperswitch (https://bahoom.com/hyperswitch) for switching between windows instead of apps and uBar (https://brawersoftware.com/products/ubar) for minimizing and maximizing apps by clicking their icon in the task bar.

I hope this helps.

It's not perfect but I've learned to love it. Command + Tab to the minimised app, while still pressing Command, press and hold Option, then release command. That pulls up the minimised app assuming you only have one instance. Here's a better explanation: https://www.google.com/amp/s/lifehacker.com/hold-down-the-op...

there's another one where you command-tab to an app and then press the down arrow to see all the windows associated with it. and then when use the arrow keys to select the window and then you hit enter it will raise that window from the dock or the background.

This!

You have to hold down the "alt" key to when switching to minimised apps to bring them forward:

cmd+tab - [find window] - hold down alt - release all keys - will bring it forward.

Crazily annoying behaviour

Witch does exactly this, and more! It's an amazing little program with lots of customizable options, and the ability to override default shortcuts:

https://manytricks.com/witch/

The thing is, this is not full screen maximize. Mac like most Unix systems (Linux included) can create multiple virtual screens. What this means you have does windows on different screen from your computer point of view.

This is something what you may or may not know as Workspace from Windows or KDE but on steroids.

How virtual screens are handled by the OS is different story. As a user of ungodly discussing i3 tailing manager I can only say, problems you described I personally consider as terrible design and putting look over functionality.

Basically this looks like OS X do care only for current screen if it's full screen or for any screen if it's not. What's inconsistent (terrible UX) and hard to use (also terrible UX).

macOS creates a distinction between windows and apps that Windows doesn't. Note that it isn't actually doing nothing when you command-tab to that app — it is selecting it. You can see the menu bar change. It's just not bringing the app's window to the forefront, because the window is in a different "space". If you create a second Desktop and put your app's window there, the same thing will happen.

I do this all the time every day. It’s my primary mode of work, going from full-screen maximized apps to windowed “desktop” apps, and back, with cmd-tab. I don’t remember ever not being able to do this, but I’ve only started using full screen often within the last few versions.

Maybe I misunderstand you.

a lot of people probably don't know this but if you have a minimized to dock app and you command+tab to that app and then hold command and then press option while releasing command it will raise the last window from the dock to be open again. so command+tab while holding command then releasing tab and then pressing option and then releasing command will re-focus the last window if there is none visible.

As a longtime mac user, max windows are for movies and video games. They create a new virtual desktop and are sort of not really windows.

And behave in unpredictable ways.

They're predictable, but you do have to know the rules.

Fair statement.

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