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Comment by pi-rat | Hacker News Reader

Very interesting, the Zoe is all the way back on 7th place here in Norway (more than 50% of all new cars here are electric), I wonder why there's a big difference compared with "mainland Europe"..

Of all time: Leaf, Golf, i3, model S, Soul, Model 3, Zoe..

In 2020: E-tron, Golf, Leaf, Kona, Model 3, Soul, Zoe.

Could be because Zoe is a picky charger. It's made to AC charge on TN power nets, and Norway has quite a bit of IT power nets, some places you'll need a heavy transformer (size of a bucket) to charge it.

https://elbilstatistikk.no

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I wonder is it how the Zoe is viewed.

In most of Europe, I think it's viewed as the only Electric car that's competitive on price against Internal Combusion cars. For a bit more, an eco conscious person can get city car with good range.

In Norway, where as I understand all IC cars now are luxury cars due the taxation, the Zoe is just one of many EVs to choose from. If it was me, I'd choose a Kona or a e-Niro over a Zoe, but I cant afford them (If they were even ever in stock). At Kona e-Niro prices... in my country... I'd choose a sporty semi-luxury car... Maybe Zoe is just in that Niche in countries that aren't (yet) heavily taxing IC cars.

But it's probably about the cold weather performance. Other cars charge faster, and that's important (even psychologically) in Winter. Other cars are also more efficient per km, so you're getting hammered by both in Winter - A car that uses a lot of kw/h per km in good weather does even worse in snow/slush and wind, and then leave you at the charger for longer!

The orignally Zoe and ZE40 models weren't great either, I think they lacked heat pumps too (even worse cold weather performance!), but while I'm only seeing Renault heavily push the Zoe to regular folks now, maybe the Zoe brand name has already been tarnished in Norway?

You could be right about that. Zoe is just one of many options. If you need the range you probably want a larger car as well (chargers are everywhere here, short range car for commutes isn’t a problem.) Most other long range cars also have heat pumps and battery heater/coolers.

I’ve the Kona EV myself actually, great car. And to illustrate the ICE/EV price difference here, top specced it was slightly cheaper than a base model ICE Golf.

My ZE40 has a heat pump.

I think you guys are richer, to be honest.

Edit: I replied too fast. I looked it up on Wikipedia and the "purchasing power parity" isn't all that different between, say, Netherlands and Norway. So I can't really explain it.

“Purchasing power parity” doesn’t apply equally across all products. An equivalent salary in Denmark or Sweden will buy you more groceries than in Norway, but in Norway it will buy you a nicer electric car!

That's the point. Taking what you earn a and live with in Norway, and comparing it with other countries, due to massive subsidies (luxury-tax excemptions that usually apply to cars), a Tesla is an affordable option for an Norwegian looking for a nice car, while this is simply not the case for most other European countries.

The same applies to Denmark and Netherlands to some degree, btw. They just have other subsidizing programs.

E.g. VWs built in Germany are cheaper to import back from Netherlands to Germany, because Netherlands adds more tax to cars in general, VW thus reduces the price for this market, and you I individually don't pay the tax if you export.

> a Tesla is an affordable option for an Norwegian looking for a nice car

Not only that but between the EV incentives and ICE disincentives, a Tesla won't be just affordable, it might end up costing just as much as a lower-end ICE car. The value proposition of the 2 options is reversed so one extracts more value by going the EV route. This has historically been called as "tax benefits for the rich" presumably because most EVs were still out of reach for much of the population. This should equalize now as more cars like Zoe come onto the market, assuming the incentives are there to stay.

despite your edit, i'd second the purchasing power argument.

source: made vacation in norway and stuff was generally priced around double of what it costs in germany.

seems norwegians are richer.

Might be market dynamics; are Norwegians more status-conscious than the average European? The e-tron in the lead there would definitely indicate something along those lines.

Or possibly available credit and willing to use said credit. The UK is a bit of an outlier in terms of car spending when you look at its average wages, but the massive popularity of PCP loans probably explains that.

Norwegians are also higher income than the average European, of course, but that probably doesn't explain all of it.

> In 2020: E-tron, Golf, Leaf, Kona, Model 3, Soul, Zoe.

Wow to me this is bigger news, Tesla is #5 on the list.

I expect them to be higher by the end of the year, I think it’s just how their large delivery batches line up.

Tesla M3 (LR) was the most sold car of any type (ICE and EV) in Norway last year.

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