Comment by djsumdog | Hacker News Reader

Comment by djsumdog | Hacker News Reader

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This article doesn't cover that it's the US Marshals who are involved, and many of their senior people have survived multiple presidents. Also I'm not sure if you've kept up, but antifa shitheads are causing a lot of damage in Portland, Seattle, et. al.

The media has barely covered CHAZ/CHOP, an area that had their own corrupt organized crime style police force, and was only shut down after 6 shootings, 2 gunshot deaths, alleged rapes, alleged extortion, a possible execution[0], a 12-party class action lawsuit enjoining all business owners and residents of Capitol Hill against the city of Seattle[1] and protests at the mayor's house. (I use to live in Cap Hill and heard from friends who still lived there; it was a nightmare and they were very glad to see the police finally clear it out).

If the US Marshall are arresting people with either warrants or holding them with evidence/charges, I'm totally okay with that. So long as there is transparency and due process of law. I'm sure there are peaceful protestors who might be caught in the chaf, but there are a lot of straight up criminal activity taking advantage of the civil unrest and it does need to be addressed.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imh-wiHzJ24

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRNqSvcLms0

What about the navy vet they beat the shit out of[1]? Was he an antifa shithead?

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/20/christopher...

That video is very disturbing, he was clearly standing still and making no aggressive actions and that cop just starts wailing on him with a baton the the other unloads the pepper spray inches from his eyes.

We can't take any video at face value anymore unfortunately - a video can be edited to make things look differently, or simply captured in a way to hide some elements out of the picture. It's been used by media before to push a specific narrative.

Here's the longer version for you: https://twitter.com/PDXzane/status/1284733976582615040

Not really sure what else to say, even if he had done something to provoke a response aside from shouting(you can read the multiple articles for details) he wasn't resisting arrest, was stationary and the federal agent broke his hand in two places[1].

I can't think of any situation where beating the shit out of someone who's standing still and not reacting is an appropriate response. Much less from someone who is expected to uphold the law and supposedly trained to deal with stressful situations.

[1] https://twitter.com/Tazerface16/status/1284849286237151232

Not respecting a lawful order to back away from a police perimeter will get the "shit beat out of you" (read: a few motivating, non-injurious taps to make you comply).

> read: a few motivating, non-injurious taps to make you comply

federal agent broke his hand in two places

I hear a lot about "lawful orders", and never anything about what makes an order lawful or not.

Is it US Marshals? I thought it was CBP BORTAC.

The article you are responding to itself describes detention with out evidence or charges

> So long as there is transparency and due process of law.

That's a key point, and my concern is that some reports suggest that some of the arrests are being made in a manner that's "off the record", no paperwork done, officially never happened. If that's true, then there's no transparency, no due process, no accountability.

> The media has barely covered CHAZ/CHOP

Really? I saw it covered relentlessly until it was shut down.

> If the US Marshall are arresting people with either warrants or holding them with evidence/charges, I'm totally okay with that.

That is not what is being contested. There is video evidence of am incident where "masked federal agents in camouflage gear, with no badges identifying who they work for, arrested a man without telling him what he was being charged with or reading him his Miranda rights. They put him in an unmarked van and drove away." [0]

[0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/evangerstmann/2020/07/18/federa...

That's not illegal. So long as they have probable cause, and identify as LEO, the police don't have to tell them why they're being charged. That happens at arraignment. They don't even have to read the suspect their rights, so long as they don't ask them any questions (and if they have video evidence of the person doing something, they're not going to bother reading rights or asking questions at all. They're just going to wait until arraignment).

The person arrested can challenge that if there is no probably cause (with the right attorney, there is money to be had there) but most don't because ... there's usually probably cause.

It is of unclear legality whether a federal agent can arrest a someone for violating state law in Oregon. It is more likely that after the mayor and governor have said they don't want this to continue it is not legal.

What is the requirement in your mind and legally to identify as LEO? The feds in Portland allegedly have the word POLICE on their shirts and that's it. Is that sufficient? Would you follow orders from someone in tacticool gear with the word POLICE on it?

> The feds in Portland allegedly have the word POLICE on their shirts and that's it. Is that sufficient

Um, yes? That's literally the law. A police officer only has to identify AS an officer. They don't have to identify which branch (police, FBI, etc.) "Police" is enough. Ask any defense attorney.

> It is of unclear legality whether a federal agent can arrest a someone for violating state law

State law? They're literally destroying federal buildings. The federal agents are not enforcing ANY state laws. They are only enforcing federal laws:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EgMijMhS_U

You assert that they have only arrested people who have destroyed federal buildings? I assert they have arrested people who haven't destroyed a federal building. I assert they've arrested people who haven't violated federal law at all, and that no federal buildings have been destroyed.

Some have almost surely tried to vandalize federal buildings and others who've been arrested have protested peacefully, and still others have only violated state law. None have taken drastic action that would actually destroy a building. I don't care for hyperbole on such serious topics.

All that said I scrolled through your comments. I think at best we won't have a productive conversation on this topic, so I won't invest my time further in it.

If that is true - I can buy a POLICE Velcro badge on eBay, stick it on, and start detaining people? Genuinely, that’d be my fear. I recognize I’d then be impersonating a police officer - but without further identification, there is a huge gap in accountability, right? Someone swipes people off the street - and bystanders have zero recourse to identify and followup on the person detained - they have no idea what agency detained them. That’s how you disappear people.

People impersonate officers all the time - you read about weirdos pulling people over and then getting busted when the drivers calls 911.

It's illegal.

What about this video did you find relevant? The case where one individual attacked a plywood barricade with a hammer and was stopped? (Surely not the Andy Ngo digression.) That's not the topic under discussion. People are concerned with federal officers arresting people off the street with no probable cause.

identify as LEO

I saw a bumper sticker on a large diesel pickup truck the other day: "I identify as a Prius." If I say I "identify" as a policeman, is that good enough in your book?

If you’re arrested the Miranda rights do not need to be read to you. Only when you’re being questioned, if they’re not going to question you it doesn’t happen. Do you have images of the lack of badges? All the images/video I’ve seen show the patches on the arms and police insignia on the chest: https://youtu.be/Isuc5DHgE1M

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