I know PMs that have meetings amongst themselves calling them "scrum" meetings. I suppose it's no worse than a department of programmers that named itself something that is also a field of math without being aware of it.
As a developer, I love those kinds of meetings.
It became apparent early in the call that although we were talking in some detail about integrating two complex and complicated systems, no-one on the call was a developer (except myself, lapsed).
It had never occurred to me that the powers that be might do that. Next time (and from then on) there were developers involved, at least from our side.
>what are these requirements? Where the hell does product come up with this crap? This is so unrealistic and just explaining why will take 15 minutes! What is the deal, why can't we just get aligned? Product is so stupid.
Also engineers:
>have fun in your product only meeting, dorks. I'm a programmer, and we HATE meetings cause of programming and stuff.
I distinctly dislike my job (and am looking elsewhere, interview monday).
If you have a broken process the developers with options will leave, what is left is the developers who are either stuck for family reasons or simply unemployable elsewhere - a few years later you wonder why a simple change takes a week and a half and breaks things that should be totally unrelated and blame the process, so you do workflow re-org number #27 to see if you can fix it.
It's hard to explain to a more senior manager that they are in fact the problem.
You might get something useful if you’re around to hear it and are interested in that particular thing at that particular time, but otherwise it’s just a lot of background noise.
“This problem can’t be fixed by talking”, e.g. a developer is required.
Some non-developers are good people though ;)