Comment by titzer | Hacker News Reader

Comment by titzer | Hacker News Reader

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> It's useless to argue the numbers

With very few exceptions, those "arguing the numbers" present a systematically biased and intentionally deceptive view that this virus is not dangerous and systematically hamper the collective action necessary to slow its spread. Instead of merely presenting a "balanced view", it's a rather irresponsible level of misinformation by...let's be frank...rather uninformed armchair epidemiologists who often have zero background in medicine, zero background in infectious diseases, and hardly any science background at all.

The virus is killing and maiming people worldwide. It's highly infectious. Basic shit like wearing masks is now political.

I don't mean to unload on you, because you are making a meta point, but seriously, most people arguing "the numbers" are completely full of shit. Listen to experts on infectious diseases, and shun internet crackheads, no matter what research papers they think they understand, and don't.

You should take this seriously because people are actually dying.

>Basic shit like wearing masks is now political.

Masks became political the moment the CDC, WHO, and US Surgeon General lied to the public by telling them that masks don't help and would even be worse than not wearing a mask. The world's leading experts made it political, don't blame nobodies with no power for that.

>You should take this seriously because people are actually dying.

"People are actually dying" isn't the adult conversation. The adult conversation acknowledges that there may never be a vaccine or even a good treatment for this disease. Many countries have their infection "under control" but this is only because of fairly draconian policies which cannot be implemented forever. Once the draconian policies are pulled back, the infection will hit them again because there is no herd immunity and no vaccine. The adults in the room are having a discussion that balances the understanding that there is a dangerous disease out there with the further understanding that draconian measures cannot be permanent and at some point the world may just have to deal with the consequences of returning to normalish life. The only question that matters is "How long do we wait?" and that question is not primarily an epidemiological one. For you personally, the answer to that question may be "forever," but it seems pretty clear that "forever" is not an answer most people will accept.

Bang on. Around the time the US Govt issued the pandemic warning I was scrambling to get the information I needed to make adequate decisions about the safety of the public works crew I was managing. The COO of a local hospital was on the public works committee so I asked her what to do regarding PPE. Her response was honest: "Try to get some, but if you don't already have it, you probably won't be able to get any." If you remember, around that time we were hoarding toilet paper. Then I called the infectious disease specialist at our local health department and asked the same, what about PPE? The nice, polite lady told me masks were useless and depictions of Asians wearing masks were showing people who were concerned with the air pollution. So from the get-go there has been plenty of confusion coming through official channels.

Yeah, the entire US response has been completely confused and deeply incompetent. But I place blame at where the buck is supposed to stop. At the president's desk. Literally the first two words he ever used to describe the virus were "Democrat hoax" which are right in line with his basic approach to everything: politicize, divide, deny, and lie.

It wasn't some innocent misstep. He's sticking with the division and stoking hatred and reality denial....aww crap I am ranting.

Suffice is to say that CDC can be held culpable for some screwups but leadership from the President is something the country desperately needs.

Could you stop with the "adult conversation" bullshit? This patronizing tone is not fit for Hacker News. Also it ironically makes you sound like a child who wants to show off how "adult-like" they are.

What is the "tone" of literally accusing posters of not caring if people are dying?

Appealing to your humanity.

Dismissing people with nuanced views as being inhumane is a personal attack and a violation of the rules here.

> Masks became political the moment the CDC, WHO, and US Surgeon General

Ah, I see you take the Trumpian line of "it's everybody else's fault except me!". It became political in your country because the dozy muppet you elected as president can't actually deal with anything.

> "People are actually dying" isn't the adult conversation.

It's the reality on the ground. Other countries are gradually opening up their "draconian measures" and are managing to contain the virus. If you can't do that, it's your own failure.

>Ah, I see you take the Trumpian line of "it's everybody else's fault except me!". It became political in your country because the dozy muppet you elected as president can't actually deal with anything.

I'm pro-mask and anti-Trump. Let's be clear. The world's leading experts gave us mask advice that they knew was a lie and likely lead to the deaths of tens of thousands additional people. No one has been fired. No one has had to resign in disgrace. Yes, I'm more upset at them than I am at some rando at the grocery store who doesn't want to wear a mask.

>It's the reality on the ground. Other countries are gradually opening up their "draconian measures" and are managing to contain the virus. If you can't do that, it's your own failure.

If you don't have a definitive answer to what is the maximum time for how long you'd continue the draconian measures, you're not even in the conversation.

Our strategy from very early on was to flatten the curve so our hospitals weren't overrun. We succeeded, our hospitals have not been overrun. We're building herd immunity at a faster rate than other countries. It's totally fair to criticize that, but not without the context of the fact that other countries will eventually have to deal with this by building their own herd immunity. It appears they are choosing to spread that process out over a longer period of time. That's a very reasonable strategy also. Discussing different strategies is totally fair, but if all you can say is insult people by saying "You're not taking death seriously!" you're not participating in the conversation.

You carry on the "draconian measures" until the virus is unable to spread and dies out. It's not magic. It spreads through human contact. Reduce contact you reduce transmission.

You are in the same camp as Trump because you're spouting clueless crap as though it's authoritative.

I'm perfectly happy to be "not participating in the conversation" because your conversation is moronic bullshit.

>You carry on the "draconian measures" until the virus is unable to spread and dies out. It's not magic. It spreads through human contact. Reduce contact you reduce transmission.

What does this look like in practice? Do you intend to keep every national border closed until the entire planet has eradicated the disease? How long do you expect that to take? Do you believe this is sustainable for 5 years? What about 20 years? Will you also be keeping the schools closed during this time?

I think there are some countries that have no more cases, so each country would have managed same thing the issue can be solved, so a solution is to isolate only the countries that have a high risk.

you just made his point (;

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