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Comment by rosywoozlechan | Hacker News Reader

People who are into fitness don't need apps to track their fitness. Their fitness routine has nothing to do with technology and they get questionable value out of something they could do much better with a notebook and a spreadsheet.

Lay people who are not into being fit are the audience for all these ridiculous things that don't help them get or stay fit because what it takes to be strong and fit cannot be derived from apps. You have to know how to prioritize, fitness has to be in the top of that priority list, you have to have the skills to create and stick to a routine. You have to know how to manage your time, how to get enough sleep, how to eat, how to move your body - like how to hip hinge for example - what activity you enjoy, how to achieve goals. A fitness app isn't going to do any of these things for you.

These things are ridiculous. As a powerlifter I'm trying to imagine what intelligent doo-dad they'd try stick with us, and the most interesting things I've seen are the bar velocity tools, but unless you're strong enough to compete, I doubt you give a shit. I don't think barbell sports are a billion dollar investment market though for a gadget.

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>People who are into fitness don't need apps to track their fitness. Their fitness routine has nothing to do with technology and they get questionable value out of something they could do much better with a notebook and a spreadsheet.

Doesn't align with my experiences, at all. Every single runner and cyclist I know (including myself) uses apps to track their activities. Notebooks are simply not as convenient as automatic GPS tracking. I understand why notebooks are sufficient for lifting, which has long rest periods to record relatively simple measurements. But it's a different story for lots of other sports.

Strava alone has something like 50 million users, and for good reason - it's an incredibly effective training tool.

I think the difference is that the OP (and I) are into resistance activities (barbell sports) and you are more into cardio and aerobic exercises.

As a powerlifter, I completely agree with the OP. When I first got into resistance training, as a techie, my inclination was to try all the apps and gadgets. 3 years later and I realised that the old timers had it right, the best tool for resistance training is a pencil and a notebook, maybe backed up by a spreadsheet to track long-term progress.

If you ever want to digitize your training log, I’d love for you to try out my markup language: https://www.traindown.com

Nice. As a potential user I have two questions.

1. As a consumer, I would like to have such an editor / viewer for my phone, is there something alike for traindown?

2. Functionality-wise, wouldn't a nice editor/viewer app necessarily be a subset of spreadsheet-like app and isn't traindown then competing against such a more general app? (Not that I know a single FOSS spreadsheet app, so I'm speaking hypothetically)

Do you have a parser for it, to extract data for progress charts?

Neat!

> 3 years later and I realised that the old timers had it right, the best tool for resistance training is a pencil and a notebook, maybe backed up by a spreadsheet to track long-term progress.

I think the issue here is that you never really stuck to a single app and used it long term. I was in the same boat, I pretty much tried all the apps, bought an Apple Watch, but nothing really satisfied my needs. In the end, I just stuck to one app (Strong), and kept using it. It's not perfect, and there are things that I'm missing, but in the end, it always me to track all my lifts and shows me the progression. It's indeed something that I could quite easily do with a notebook (although I won't have the fancy graphs), but I already have my phone with me to listen to music, so might as well use it to track.

+1 for the notebook. I don't even bother writing how many sets and reps, just the exercise, highest weight, and any notes, e.g. "got it up but almost too much".

Along with rough tracking of calories -- I ignore things like green veggies and coffee -- and weight and I'm golden.

I end up using Strava to track individual runs, but then still store longer term records in an Excel spreadsheet. Before the spreadsheet, it was on paper. This helps me track some of my trends better (miles per run, miles run in a pair of shoes, etc). Things that are possible with Strava, but ridiculously easy with a spreadsheet.

For me, Strava is more about tracking my individual runs and keeping up to date with what friends are doing. Monitoring any actual training, for me at least, is easier with paper and a spreadsheet.

I’m on the complete other end. I don’t pay much attention to my individual performances but I love being able to see how I trend over time on specific segments or training intensity and that’s the main reason I pay for Strava.

I track my shoes with Strava, I'd definitely never do that on paper. In fact, just last week I retired 3 pair of shoes that had all gone over 500 miles. (whether this is a good number is another story, but I had to pick something).

I only wear one set of shoes at a time, so tracking their distance is quite a bit easier. If I needed to track multiple sets at a time, I’d be lost without something like Strava. My last 3 pairs (same brand/style) I’ve retired around the 380-400 mile mark, which is about as far as I trust the treads.

I am very much not OK with strava's data retention and privacy policy, and paying for a service like that. With a basic $60 bike computer you can already track distance per ride, average speed, cumulative distance, max speed, duration of ride, cumulative duration. Go up just a little bit in cost and you can add heart rate functionality.

There's also a number of things you can do with an old Android smartphone and some common apps that create GPX format track files, if you want to import your ride paths into Google Earth pro on a desktop PC, without uploading to a cloud based service.

You don't need some $400 bike computer and a cloud based service to achieve a high level of road cycling fitness. Have a good digital scale at home. Track your cumulative riding distances and average speeds. Eat healthy, etc.

Having an offline log and metrics to compare your own performance against is extremely useful. Data and information can be a powerful motivator to compete against yourself to improve your average speeds, climbing times and so forth. Where I disagree philosophically is whether that data needs to become a subscription you pay forever for, or if your data needs to ever go out to a third party.

Most people don't use strava as the main data aggregator, only as a social platform. Most use Garmin or Polar or similar, and then sync a copy to Strava.

And I really disagree. Maybe one doesn't need a good cycle computer, but the stats and motivation that brings is invaluable. Seeing the actual data instead of just an average/total at the end is very useful.

Just picked up a new pair of running shoes now that I'm back into running. The salesperson at the fancy running store seemed surprised that I don't use an app or some kind of tracker. Why would I need to? I'm not competing. I just want to stay fit. My competition is myself and my goal is to run until I'm satisfied with my workout. Why would I care if I ran X number of miles or what my speed was? How does that help me? It seems like a distraction with no point other than showing off to other people.

I used to track my hiking miles back in the day. All it did was justify poor eating habits or give me a false sense of pride.

For some people completing rings or seeing numbers go up is satisfying. For the same reason completing all quests in an open world game or leveling up a character in an MMO is satisfying and addictive to some people.

This is useful for those who don't find working out in itself to be a rewarding activity and may have a hard time sticking with it otherwise.

I run and cycle, and don't bother tracking. I haven't put much thought in this decision.

I'm just interested in being fit (which I achieve with just shoes, and going for a run every ~3 days), not in achieving peak fitness or optimal training strategies.

I believe others benefit from tracking, which is fine too.

That's not his point. People who are running were running before Strave, MapMyRun or whatever. These apps don't give a lasting motivation for others to run on a large scale. 1 / 100 maybe.

I got into running thanks to an app (N2R). It was incredibly helpful in building up stamina and improving my run with a damper up series of workouts at my level.

Your argument that the target market is not "people who are into fitness" is the entire point. It's a much larger market than people who are into fitness.

> Lay people who are not into being fit are the audience for all these ridiculous things that don't help them get or stay fit because what it takes to be strong and fit cannot be derived from apps.

[citation needed]

The argument basically seems to boil down to "fat lazy slobs should just give up".

Everyone's "journey" (sorry, I hate the term, too) starts somewhere. This kind of thing is exactly what some people will need. I have no idea if $500M will turn out to be a good investment, nor what % of Mirror buyers will get into fitness long-term. But the reality is that some/many of them will, and it's pretty silly to imply that someone using a gadget to get into fitness cannot or will not learn to prioritize fitness, learn skills, how to manage their time, all these things you tout.

I'm a former competitive cyclist, but even back then I was against any rigorous quantification of my training. Exercise should be fun. That's what really gets you to stick with it.

If Strava makes it more fun for some people, then that's absolutely fantastic. However, I see a lot of people (new cyclists in particular)that want to micromanage all of their exercise, and it seems like it causes them anxiety.

I lift weights, and as someone who is not bulking (nor have I for a few years), I don't keep track of my lifting. I just lift in the volume and weight that feels good to me. Exercise science is kind of a wasteland anyway, so detailed data on one's workouts isn't even particularly useful information.

How do you get exercise to be fun? I occasionally try doing more exercise than normal, but it eventually breaks down as I find it tedious and boring. The only exercising-esque activity I've really enjoyed was swordfighting (literally just with wooden swords with friends), but that's not really something to practice on my own, nor is there that many who I can do it with. I should just stick with some form of exercise, but when I feel like I'm wasting my time (being bored), that really kills my motivation.

> I occasionally try doing more exercise than normal

This has never worked for me. The extra push is exhausting, and then I use that as an excuse to skip the next day, and eventually the habit breaks.

Don't overexert yourself, do only the amount that feels good and keep it easy so that you're not turned off when you need to do it again the next day.

Once you've built up a habit, you can slowly ramp it up, but trying to go too fast has always caused me to stop altogether. If you go slowly enough that you don't notice the additional exertion, you're much more likely to keep your habit.

Contrary to popular soundbytes, you actually can improve without pushing yourself too hard. It's weird going from barely being able to run half a mile to running five miles without getting seriously winded, but it does work, and you don't ever need to feel winded in the process. If you start to feel bad, stop. Don't beat yourself up if you didn't get as far as you did yesterday, just do it again tomorrow.

I was only ever able to do this slowly. Overexerting myself always failed.

As for fun... Eh. I've gotten to the point where I feel restless if I haven't gone running, so then I go run and shower, and then I feel great. But the restless itching feeling is the habit that makes me want to go, not fun in the moment. Maybe running is weird.

Second this whole thing. Wasn't a runner growing up, recently ran a marathon which was fun, now I am back to just running 5 miles for regular exercise. Honestly got into it as a mental break after work, took to listening to podcasts and audiobooks while running. Don't go too fast, don't go too far each time, the act of having done something is the only thing that is important, even if you walk half of it. Exercise is there to make you feel better, mentally and physically.

> How do you get exercise to be fun?

Find something you like! It can be any activity that requires some exertion! Canoeing! Trail hiking! Boxing! Street hockey! Soccer? Bouldering! There's so many different forms of sports and activities and there's going to be one both fun and challenging for you enough to make it part of your daily life. That's what you need.

You might check out Arma or some other Hema-type martial art. Olympic fencing is fun and intense as well.

> The argument basically seems to boil down to "fat lazy slobs should just give up".

That's not my argument at all. In fact I'm reducing the entry cost to achieving a fit lifestyle and explaining what's actually important.

You don't need any apps, you don't need to pay a monthly subscription for a digital service. Maybe you might have to pay a membership fee at a gym or a boxing club or some place you can go to do to the thing you want to do. The local canoe club, who knows.

I'm proposing these apps are like fad diets, people will pay for them, see they don't work, and move on to the next thing, perpetuating failure and bad outcomes. I predict this $500m investment will blow up as a failure, that was more the point I was trying to make.

People just need to fix their behavior. They need to find an activity they like, prioritize it, create a routine, and make it part of their life. People have been doing this since before apps existed, and it's all it takes, and apps can't do that. You have to do it for yourself.

Some fad diets make tons of money. Just because something is a shit idea doesn't necessarily mean it'll be a shit investment (unfortunately).

Changing habits is hard. Monumentally hard, for most people. For most folks "just do it" has't "done it" for them. Will most people who buy a Mirror or a Peloton or download Strava make a lifelong change? Probably not, but they already weren't likely to have done it on their own. And you don't know what the gateway will be for any given person.

For me, as a longtime occasional cyclist (get into it for a few years, stop, restart, etc), once upon a time (1 year) competitive college athlete, but mostly lazy slob.. it involved my wife buying the Peloton bike .... then 6 or 8 months later when I was regularly biking to work, but still gaining weight... started seeing a personal trainer.. he encouraged me to track what I eat, and I've now been using myfitnesspal for 3 years. You could point to any one of these things as being what did it for me; obviously the structure and advice from seeing a trainer was crucial, but #1 on that list for me was MFP, so yes, an app (and a free one at that!) The feedback loop of what I inputted there showing up on the scale the next week was addictive. It was the first time anything really "worked" for me. #2 on that list is the Peloton, in particular once I started doing Power Zone training, where I could join a team, stick to a schedule, and quantify performance gains that I can now see when I set personal records up local climbs on my road bike. I'm also in a running club and compete on the road and cross-country.

Again, everyone's path is different, and I absolutely could have done any of this on my own, but I'm 39 years old, and the reality is, I didn't until I started using an iPhone app. And the data and quantifiable results of my various forms of training are what keeps me going, and reinforces those habits.

The commenter is, as is so common for fitness, explicitly and proudly gatekeeping. There’s a reason people new to fitness are embarrassed to go to gyms. It’s because they know that so many “fitness people” are like that. Luckily, not all are, and even better, with the help of technology you can learn and be motivated and get exercise at home.

He's doing the opposite of gatekeeping. He's trying to argue that you don't have to pay any ridiculous tolls for useless gadgetry on the road to fitness.

No, he's gatekeeping. He's saying you have to do fitness his way or not at all:

> what it takes to be strong and fit cannot be derived from apps. You have to know how to prioritize, fitness has to be in the top of that priority list, you have to have the skills to create and stick to a routine. You have to know how to manage your time, how to get enough sleep, how to eat, how to move your body - like how to hip hinge for example - what activity you enjoy, how to achieve goals. A fitness app isn't going to do any of these things for you.

That quote is quite literally saying that fitness apps don't provide all the tools necessary to become fit and strong, or more specifically that they don't help towards the criteria listed which the poster views as necessary towards becoming fit and strong. Keep in mind the listed sport was powerlifting and not a vague 'fitness' goal, all of that advice is incredibly mainstream and is generally taken to be the advice that a powerlifter should follow. I can't see how it's suggesting that you need to follow it (and that if you don't you're not doing fitness correctly) but rather that fitness apps at best are supplementary to established knowledge and not a means to an end. This isn't entirely true of course as some apps have started incorporating programming and technique information as well as dietary information etc and can provide live coaching services at a premium, but this is starting to get beside the point.

Powerlifting as a sport is full of gimmicks and fads, the post struck out to me as calling out these gimmicks and fads and to return to the basics and bare essentials with the lowest barrier of entry, which to me seems to be for a good reason as the fads often come across as gatekeeping the sport and raising the barrier to entry in general, which begs the question, is it gatekeeping to call out such gatekeeping behaviour? To put it another way, would it be gatekeeping to suggest that healthy weight people don't need to follow fad diets to remain at a healthy weight? Is it gatekeeping to call out often times harmful fad diets? Is it denigrating to the people following said diets? The implication seems to be that it's wrong to gatekeep even if the purpose is to caution against spending money on gimmicks or fads that might not be the best way to achieve a persons goals.

> That quote is quite literally saying that fitness apps don't provide all the tools necessary to become fit and strong... I can't see how it's suggesting that you need to follow it (and that if you don't you're not doing fitness correctly)

The quote says literally that you "have to" do all these things and they "cannot be derived from apps".

> This isn't entirely true of course as some apps have started incorporating programming and technique information as well as dietary information etc and can provide live coaching services at a premium, but this is starting to get beside the point.

It's not beside the point, it is the point. The quoted claim is wrong. Everything the quote claims you can't get out of an app, actually you can.

> the post struck out to me as calling out these gimmicks and fads and to return to the basics and bare essentials with the lowest barrier of entry, which to me seems to be for a good reason as the fads often come across as gatekeeping the sport and raising the barrier to entry in general

I don't see how offering an app to do x is gatekeeping, unless someone tries to suggest that that app is the only way to do x (which is not something I've seen happening). Whereas saying that you have to do x the traditional way and anything else is never going to work, is absolutely gatekeeping.

> To put it another way, would it be gatekeeping to suggest that healthy weight people don't need to follow fad diets to remain at a healthy weight? Is it gatekeeping to call out often times harmful fad diets?

If you claim that the only way to maintain a healthy weight is the way that you do it, that's gatekeeping. If a specific diet is harmful then by all means call it out, but if you start making blanket - and false - claims like diets can never help anyone, or all diets other than the one you like are fads, then that's gatekeeping.

> The implication seems to be that it's wrong to gatekeep even if the purpose is to caution against spending money on gimmicks or fads that might not be the best way to achieve a persons goals.

That wasn't the purpose that came through in that post.

They are literally prescribing who is and isn’t serious about fitness based on clearly irrelevant things like whether one uses a fitness app.

That's one way to characterize the comment, however I have an equally valid interpretation.

People like the idea of doing something (in the case, becoming fit). They are not fit. This causes brain distress. Brain wants to do something about this dissonance, so brain says, "oh, I can buy a very expensive item that is a tool for becoming fit. Ahhhh, there is some relief to my dissonance." And then you buy the mirror and continue to not train, but your brain feels some sense of completion.

This factor has been studied. https://interruptions.net/literature/Wicklund-BASP81.pdf

This factor I have observed in my own behaviors first-hand.

Both can be true at the same time :)

Yes this is the beauty of life. When I recognize this, it’s a great opportunity to allow conflicts to dissipate and to understand the Other.

The vast majority of people just want to go to the gym or a class and get sweaty for an hour or so. With out having to think about what they are actually doing. That’s what most of these apps and devices are aimed for. You may or may not get for this way depending on your definition of fitness.

So I agree with you, this is a far larger market than people who think about correct movement and actual gains.

I played sports in college and have been a pretty self-motivated exerciser in the 10+ years since.

But, I must admit that peloton is pretty motivational. We got a cycle right before the pandemic, mostly because we have a newborn and it's hard to find time to make it to the gym.

I was surprised, but I think I work out harder with it than when I am just out for a jog myself. Sure, when I really feel like pushing myself on a run, I can work out just as hard. But there are also lots of times when I'm just forcing myself to go out and exercise and I don't put everything I have into it. With the peloton cycle, I feel like I get into the workout much quicker and rarely just go through the motions.

From what I hear, a high quality cycle can be bought on the order of $1-1.5k I wonder if it would be possible to emulate the peloton experience with a software only startup that targets commodity bikes and rowers?

The Peloton experience, as I understand it, is based more around the live-streamed workout experience, the accompanying music, and the integrated refined hardware.

People on normal bikes can buy a 'smart trainer' ($400-1200) and already have many options of connected apps (https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2020/03/cycling-indoor-trainer-a...), the most popular of which is Zwift.

Peloton has a software only offering that you can use with your bike on a bike trainer. It's less feature rich than competitors like zwift,trainerroad, and sufferfest (no power meter support) but my wife likes it because of the spin class style format that those products lack

You can find pretty good spin-class videos on youtube. Like, dozens of em. I'm sure the peleton workouts are better and more varied, but you can probably find something that works without paying a premium price.

A smart trainer (wahoo, tacz etc) connected to Zwift, Trainerroad, Sufferfest, Rouvy, Bkool or similar. There are loads!

I use Zwift and Trainerroad. However, I don't think these actually compete with Peloton. Peloton is like going to a gym class. You just follow allong, and show up when you want to and go mostly all out. It's a nice workout, but often not aligned with long term goals. But TR for instance one gets a tailored plan based on one's race goals that season.

This is more for the Peleton crowd, I think. Those who are not wanting to go to a gym but want the effects of being in a class, but I'm not certain.

Otherwise I wholly agree with you (am also an [amateur] powerlifter) - the one thing these apps undeniably cheat their users of is owning their own fitness. They prey on the type of person who does not know how, or even doesn't want, to take ownership of their fitness and instead signing them up for a generic routine that might get some results, but ultimately the gratification that they are doing _something_ at least.

Though I am quite biased and a snob about them, I will happily admit.

It's easy to own one's fitness while participating in a class: control the amount of weight you lift, pick the variations of movements to perform, adjust the tension on your spin bike, choose the incline on your elliptical, etc. Everyone does this.

Many people cannot stick to a solo workout routine. These people benefit a lot from classes. Fitness classes provide many positive things:

- relationships with instructors & other students

- peer pressure to show up and work hard

- regular schedules

- prevention of injury from bad technique

- variety of music and routine which reduces boredom

- incentive to work hard to maximize benefit from financial expenditure

Together, these things improve the quality of life for participants. Fitness classes benefit society. Someday, human society will progress to the point where personal fitness is an expected part of personal hygiene, like brushing teeth and showering. At that point, fitness classes will be universally available, affordable, diverse, and extremely engaging.

What is wrong with the results of Peloton? Or any of the other video work out routines? There’s a large a market that understands the need to exercise, but hasn’t been able to mentally get into it. I’ve never had exercise equipment at home because I thought I couldn’t fit it into my apartment. I spent a fortune on a gym membership I never used and my gym was in the same building I worked in! I could never find the time to go to a gym.

Now, I’ve got a home gym, and I bought a subscription to Les Mills. It’s been great and I look forward to getting sweaty for an hour. It’s not perfect and I’m certainly not getting into perfect physique but I’m definitely getting great cardio, becoming more flexible, and gaining strength. Don’t think I am being taken advantage of or being denied “ownership of my fitness” when in fact it’s the absolute opposite.

> What is wrong with the results of Peloton? Or any of the other video work out routines?

Nothing, if that's what you want. What I'm referring to is this idea that subscribing to one of these services and getting whatever results you get from it is "it". I would be much better impressed by any service that educates the subscriber about even the basics of nutrition and physiology instead of just pushing their LCD programs like they are the silver bullet.

FWIW I don't look down on Peloton, I think it's actually a great service. Lots of people working out in a class-like virtual environment is great as I am confident a lot of those who partake wouldn't go to the gym to do the same otherwise, for whatever reason(s).

You are, sort of, missing the point

These Apps and Services are for

1) People who want 'to feel good' i.e. they did something for their fitness

2) People who want to transition from knowing nothing about fitness, to knowing something

3) People who want to develop a habit of fitness. Keeping tracking of things is critical

What gets Measured Gets Managed (peter drucker, google it)

4) people who are absolutely clueless and want to know where to start

a good example is the Water app. IT was super simple. 10 glasses of water. As you drink a glass you tap it and you can keep track

To someone who is very fit, it makes zero sense. They already have a routine and a habit

On the other hand, for the 98% of the population who don't have a very healthy and very disciplined routine, that is an app that can be super valuable

Please keep in mind that IN ANY ACTIVITY

the vast majority of people have ZERO interest in being Arnold Schwarzenegger of Fitness or Warren Buffet of investing

they just want to go from unconscious incompetence to conscious incompetence to even a tiny bit of competence

EVEN if it is just a feeling

You fall under one particular customer segment I'd call "experts." These types of products are not intended for you. Also, I highly doubt powerlifting will ever be digitized given the liabilities involved. Likely some connected Bowflex will appear, but that's not the type of thing experts like you would ever buy.

My Apple Watch has definitely increased my fitness. I've had it 428 days...and I've got a 428 day move streak going, and 60 consecutive perfect weeks for stand, move, exercise, and all rings.

This is definitely more activity than I was doing before the watch. According to the Health app on my iPhone, my average daily walking distance is 2-3x post-watch than pre-watch.

Turns out I'm as susceptible to psychologically manipulative gamification as any other random person.

> People who are into fitness don't need apps to track their fitness. Their fitness routine has nothing to do with technology and they get questionable value out of something they could do much better with a notebook and a spreadsheet.

I'm a marathoner (running 40-50 miles most weeks) and have a Strava subscription. I also have an Aaptiv subscription which I enjoy for core workouts and other ways to cross-train. My Garmin triathlon watch records data into the Garmin app where I also engage in challenges with friends and activity data is forwarded to Strava (and Aaptiv via Garmin -> Apple Health).

The gamification and content in both apps cause me to train more and harder. Strava in particular makes running social for me when I can't run with others.

I wouldn't buy Mirror personally, but I have very seriously been contemplating Peloton.

I agree that these are targeted more at lay people than power lifters, but I disagree with some of your other points.

> you have to have the skills to create and stick to a routine

Unless an app creates the routine for you.

> You have to know how to [...] move your body

Unless you have an app to show you how.

These apps also set goals and record progress for people who don't know what to aim for. Between that, the gamification, and competing with others, this can be enough of a motivation for folks that wouldn't otherwise be part of the "make it your top-priority" and spreadsheet-tracking crowd.

"People who are into fitness don't need apps to track their fitness."

Fitness apps are very common among "people who are into fitness". In lifting, running, cycling, and other realms. Your No True Scotsman claim doesn't mesh with reality.

I lift three times a week, and have for years. I use and very much enjoy Fitbod. It tracks my activities in a way that would be a giant pain otherwise...why would I use a notebook and a spreadsheet when there are tools perfectly suited?

Because pen and paper works and you don’t have to be paranoid about where your phone is in relation to your plates. Never know when someone will fail a lift.

Sorry I don't agree completely with your statement here.

I use a Garmin watch for track my running/biking, and it does play a role in inspiring me to lift my ass up. The metrics are what I find to be fun, and they even help me compete with myself to do better every single time. I agree that Mirror is an overpriced commodity that 90% of us don't need, but there are always people going after the 'fancy' stuff.

I think you are right - but only for a specific crowd. The hardcore iron types tend to be serious about fitness, but define fitness narrowly. They fetishize the weightlifting basics, and dislike any and all gadgets and tech in their routines.

Always in fitness you have a group of customers who are not into fitness and making an aspirational purchase. However, there is also a group (probably larger than the hardcore weightlifter types) of fitness-oriented people who aren’t trying to lift heavy weights and they use apps, workout classes, and HIIT training with light weights.

Peleton/Mirror suit this group well. Both of my parents - who are older but fit - do almost 100% of their workouts on the Peleton now. My roommate, a former D1 athlete runs and does fitness classes via app. In both cases they were doing this before COVID, and quarantine is obviously causing many others to embrace this as well.

> People who are into fitness don't need apps to track their fitness.

What do you make of Strava? Tons of elite runners and cyclists use it. I use it, Garmin Connect, Elevate, and various others to track my fitness. I would say that the vast majority of people who are "into fitness" use apps to track their fitness.

Running and cycling are very different than weight lifting. Easy to calculate automatically with an app.

That said, I think the market of weight lifters with good technique who use barbells is much smaller than the market of casual weight lifters/gym goers.

I use Garmin to track strength training too. I find that peak heart rate during heavy lifts is a good indicator of cumulative central nervous system stress from running.

> People who are into fitness don't need apps to track their fitness

Show me a runner without a Garmin (or similar)

If you've ever attended a mainstream gym you'd know how many people show up just for aerobics classes or personal trainers who put them through a load of low-intensity movements. They're paying $50-200/mo.

Strong disagreement here, from someone who used a simple app called "100 pushups" to incorporate stretching and pushups into my morning routine. I've got a personal record of 129 consecutive pushups, and have over 56k pushups tracked since I started using the app. My wife's started complimenting me on my physique.

Also, several of my friends use Strava or similar apps to great effect wrt their biking and running.

It's nearly always a mistake to assume your personal experiences or perspective are universal.

Apologies for the unsolicited advice, and you probably know this already, but you could incorporate some exercises that work out your back muscles to balance it out.

Thanks! No apology warranted! And yes, well aware -- and I always have at least a full day between the 100p sets (as advised by the 100p app I mentioned). The off days, I often do abs / crunches.

> a simple app called "100 pushups"

Got a link? There are a bunch on the App Store with that in the title.

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/100-pushups-be-stronger/id9793...

The app per se is a little rough around the edges, but imho that's moot; I've followed its guidance for stretching and reps and rest days, and it was gratifying (and motivating) to track my progress to 100 consecutive pushups and beyond. Enjoy! :)

When the pandemic hit and we all went into lockdown, my wife and I with our newborn and 2 year old went looking for a way to keep somewhat of a workout routine in our schedule. We found a gym that was posting home-modified workouts on SugarWOD and they've been perfect for us. We want to maintain fitness - I couldn't care less if my deadlift or clean or snatch got stronger - my definition of fitness isn't my PR's. I want to be able to do things like play sports with my kids when they grow up, hike with them, run around with them for hours without feeling like dying. That's the goal and these types of apps are perfect for that. I don't have to care about what to do today, if I'm overloading a specific muscle group, if I'm taking it easy on myself because I'm a bit lazy that day. I open the app, I see what's in store and I go. We've actually talked about not going back to our regular gym when things open up again because we've enjoyed this so much and haven't lost a beat in terms of fitness. I have friends whose definition of fitness has a lot more to do with physique - and for them they absolutely would not get what they want from our routine. They need very specific programming (diet, exercise, and rest) to hit their very specific goals.

I don't really see the appeal of a $1500 ipad/mirror but I get a lot of value out of my fitbit.

Tracking food, sleep, and my weight has been really helpful. It lets me know what I need to adjust to meet my goals.

Tracking my walking/running data is pretty useful as a motivator to improve.

Its easier and more convenient to track all of these things either automatically using sensors or manually on my phone in an app than it is to use a spreadsheet.

I don't really like using apps to track my strength training though.

I don’t disagree with the premise of your comment, but some active people do find technology useful. Lots of my runner friends find their Apple Watches extremely useful. As a cyclist, Strava provides motivation (primarily peer pressure through the social network aspect) and useful statistics.

It sounds like you’re mostly thinking of strength training, which is one of the areas of fitness that is less well-served by fancy technology.

When I was lifting, I used my phone instead of a notebook. Of course, I used a simple note taking app, not anything designed or built to purpose.

It's amusing to see this wave of products; does anybody remember Wii Fit, the balance board, Playstation Move, etc? There's long been a market for gizmos and gadgets that are intended to make physical activity more "fun" via gamification. There's always going to be a market for the latest fitness fad, and the trick for any company wanting to make a buck here is to keep evolving their "gimmick" to recapture imagination every so often (rather than selling a single trick which people will get tired of eventually).

I think these toys may actually help people become more fit, FWIW. Some people only need a little nudge to get moving, and a gizmo might just do the trick. Anecdotally, I feel like the most successful gizmos in this class are the bicycling video games, which may have to do with the fact that the core elements of the sport are easier to simulate well than most other activities.

Totally agree. I’ve been trying to create a simple way to digitize my training log and rather than an app, I came up with a simple markup language. I would love any feedback you may have on it: https://www.traindown.com

You’re right that they don’t need them, plenty still want them though.

For many people screwing about with gear and new toys is a big part of having a hobby. This includes both people that are good at their hobbies and those that aren’t.

Same. Somehow (crazy i know) my body actually tells me if i feel like i had a good exercise, regardless of steps, apps, gps map overlay, Social sharing integration. If you need 'features' to enable your life, lulz.

Could not disagree more. I train 10+ hours a week cycling and race competitively. apps and data are absolutely critical. I even get value out of apps with instructor led classes when my motivation is low.

This might be true for lifting but it's much less true for running and not at all true for cycling: there are approximately zero serious cyclists who don't track rides using technology.

They don't _need_ apps but clearly an overwhelming majority _like_ or _want_ apps to track. Not everyone is into carrying a notebook and pen with them to the gym and already have their phone.

> People who are into fitness

> As a powerlifter

This is what's called "projecting". Other people who are "into fitness" are not into it the same way you are.

85% of being fit is your diet. There are a lot of people that can have their diet swayed because of technology.

100% agree thank you for saying this.

People don't "need" apps for anything. They use whatever is helpful to them.

People definitely don’t need an app to meditate but people think it makes their life easier and pay for it. You won’t see Buddhist monks in the foothills of Nepal using headspace but the average person with limited time will.

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