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Comment by aahhahahaaa | Hacker News Reader

I see this come up a lot and it seems silly, let's summarize:

• The ad was about a political stance they disagree with (Antifa)

• The upside-down red triangle was specifically used to mark groups of prisoners who participated in anti-nazi political speech

So what's the alternative? That the Trump campaign chose an upside-down red triangle in an ad at random because... it's uh... a shape?

Do they also have ads with blue circles? pink rectangles? hmm, no.

Have they also "accidentally" used gold 6-pointed stars? yes.

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They didn’t choose the symbol at random but rather because it’s the symbol many Antifa supporters use to brand their movement https://www.redbubble.com/i/sticker/Antifascist-Red-Triangle...

Perhaps Antifa itself got the symbol from nazis though?

You picked a single example that's also referenced in a stackexchange answer that did a fair amount of work exploring the usage of the symbol.

"It can be found in that context. But it is surely not the most recognisable symbol for Antifa in the US."

https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/47917/have-anti...

So ok, maybe we can give the benefit of the doubt. By why not use the actual symbol that's very predominantly used in Antifacist protests? It's very easy to find and much more familiar and relevant. Honestly it would have made for a better ad.

And in isolation this is a single mistake, but the administration has been repeatedly criticized for using fascist symbolism and language, including "America First." At what point do these things stop being coincidental?

I'm not saying it isn't xenophobic and pandering to a nationalist base but it seems like a stretch to call "America First" fascist, especially when the phrase is generally accompanied by (dubious) accusations that the opposing party failed to prioritize the needs of the people. I could see the argument that the slogan was perhaps used as a tool to further fascist policies but "America First" represents fascism about as much as the Che Guervarra hats that Hot Topic used to sell represented communism.

It's not the phrase "America First" on its own, but its history of use.

"While the America First Committee had a variety of supporters in the United States, 'the movement was marred by anti-Semitic and pro-fascist rhetoric.'"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_(policy)

And again, this is another example where they could have literally picked anything else... but they didn't. When pressed about its history Trump literally backed up the phrase's use by stating "I like the expression."

It's isolationist, nationalistic, xenophobic nonsense with a tinge of antisemitism. It's been denounced by multiple jewish scholars and the Anti-defamation league.

Exactly. It's so blatantly political propaganda. The scary part is that "respected" outlets like NPR and others pick up the headline and run with it knowing that the link to Nazi imagery is tenuous at best.

This is pulled directly from an NPR article denouncing the triangle as a Nazi symbol:

"Trump campaign spokesman Tim Murtaugh said that some products are sold online that use the inverted red triangle in antifa imagery, though experts said it is not a commonly adopted symbol among anti-fascist activists.

"We would note that Facebook still has an inverted red triangle emoji in use, which looks exactly the same, so it's curious that they would target only this ad," Murtaugh said"

Which is a perfectly reasonable explanation that's ignored by the Democratic Party's political propagandists in the media.

Seems Antifa has been affiliated with the upside down red triangle before any Trump campaign images used it[1]

[1] https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/a/47921/36967

To quote the top answer on that questions:

> To claim like the campaign that this would be the symbol, or even a really common one – in the US – seems to not have been true. This changed obviously in a reverse-Streisand now.

That same answer goes on to show all of the imagery dating back to WWII using the red triangle. Plus images of modern Antifa paraphernalia including T-Shirts, Stickers and more that include that symbol.

Seems, to me, the upside down red triangle is definitely a symbol of Antifa, although perhaps not the most commonly used symbol in the US.

Regardless, the claim that the Trump campaign picked an obvious Nazi symbol just to make Antifa look bad seems very clearly garbage. I, as a sample of one, have never seen that symbol used in a Nazi context before, but that's just me.

> Regardless, the claim that the Trump campaign picked an obvious Nazi symbol just to make Antifa look bad seems very clearly garbage.

That is not anyone's claim. Explain why you think that the Trump campaign's adoption of the symbol the Nazis used to brand and kill political prisoners somehow makes antifa look bad?

It wasn't about making antifa look bad. It was about showing people the double-standard that social media has. Its about waking people up.

That top answer is editorializing but their own analysis indicates that in Europe the upside red triangle is incredibly common in resistance movement imagery as well as having precedented use in US Antifa branches.

As far as symbols go, it's fairly good. Simple is better than complex. A red triangle has no difficult lines, curves or fine detail. You can spray paint it, print it, draw it... and it will look pretty much the same every time.

The three flag symbol isn't nearly as easy to make the same everywhere every time without some official stencil or something.

The triangle wasn't the only Nazi reference. They ran 88 variations of the ad, and the first sentence had 14 words. Both numbers are well-known references used by neo-Nazis for decades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/88_Precepts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words

edit: If anyone doesn't believe that "14 words" is a neo-Nazi dog-whistle, here's the Anti-Defamation League's explanation:

https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/14-wor...

How do you know how many variations of the ad they ran?

https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/6/18/21295226/facebook-trump...

https://www.salon.com/2020/06/19/facebook-pulls-trump-campai...

You actually think they are giggling to themselves that they ran some obscure magic Nazi number of ads and nobody knows? hehehe!

There's a lot to bash Trump with... we don't need to make stuff up.

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