Hacker News Reader

Comment by hprotagonist | Hacker News Reader

Without this program, my employer would have had to either lay off a large group of employees or we would've gone under.

As it is, out of a group of about 50, we furloughed 8, who continued without pay, qualified for unemployment benefits, but retained 100% health coverage. Two have returned to work already and we anticipate being more or less normal again in time to meet the loan forgiveness criteria.

It's good to have the database open to see -- and, hey, to double-check that we actually got it.

View on HN

So will your employer be paying the "loan" back?

if we can avoid it, certainly not. It's very transparently only a loan if you fuck it up and can't bail yourself out in time. If you can get back on your feet, it's a relief program, so that's the strong incentive from our board to demonstrate, by way of restoring people to full pay and hours, that we have been sufficiently relieved.

Most of the loan isn't designed to be paid back. So what are you getting at?

Some people - and the companies they operate - will, given the option, on principle, not take money which they have not earned.

In the event that they did/do accept said money they did not earn, and that money was applied effectively and literally saved their asses in an emergency that they were not properly prepared for - they would never forget it and do whatever it took to repay this money that saved their life because they are grateful.

These examples do exist, I know personally know of some and maybe you do too...or not? But that's what I am getting at: everyone has different morals and values. Further, it's helpful to know what those are (when manifested into the form of a corporation) because then we get to make informed choices about who want to work for and with based on value systems. We vote every day with our feet, our dollars, and our attention.

Would I rather work for an employer who did what it took to navigate the Covid shitstorm on their own dime or the one who needed a lifeline and didn't even have the decency to pay back what was never theirs to begin with? Obviously.

Why do you think people are so interested in this data set? Many are acting on this intel in more ways than you think!

We're VC backed, dude, that "money we haven't earned" ship sailed a loooong time ago.

On the flip side, the way you "pay it back" to your Noble Investors is to keep the ship afloat and deliver a ROI with a healthy and competent team.

Increasing shareholder value and also doing the right thing and coming up with a way to give our furloughed teammates health benefits during a pandemic was, I suspect, an easy decision for senior staff to make. I'm a lowly scientist, I don't get to make those calls -- but you won't hear me complaining about this course we chose, either.

> Would I rather work for an employer who did what it took to navigate the Covid shitstorm on their own dime

I don't know about that. Every accountant I knew urged their clients to apply — primarily because there were so many unknowns — at the worst of it, it seemed like things had a sincere chance of degrading into a real doomsday scenario.

I would argue that it would be outright irresponsible for a company to forgo applying for PPP. I wouldn't want to work for an employer who would choose to go against the advice of their financial advisors because they wanted make a point.

If it's not designed to be paid back, is it a loan?

noun: loan; plural noun: loans

    a thing that is borrowed, especially a sum of money that is expected to be paid back with interest.

Is it just called a loan because that sounds better than just calling it a subsidy?

So the issue is with what the government is calling it?

I believe that's why the parent comment had used quotes. It's not a loan, it's a subsidy. Calling it a loan is misleading, because loans are meant to be paid back, and this isn't.

I believe it's a loan that can be forgiven if you fit into certain criteria. So, it's still a loan. If you fuck it up you have to pay back

It's a subsidy with a penalty for those that don't follow the rules of the subsidy.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com