Comment by roywiggins | Hacker News Reader

Comment by roywiggins | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

That requirement was waived this spring. They're unwaiving it.[0]

Rigid enforcement of rules designed for a world that doesn't exist anymore, and won't for a while, is a deliberate choice and not one that we have to make.

The pandemic is an ongoing rolling emergency. Making life worse for people for no good reason may be the default, but that doesn't mean that the people who can waive the rule shouldn't be held responsible when they decide not to. Inaction and action are nearly indistinguishable from the side of the people being affected.

[0] See this guidance from March: "Given the extraordinary nature of the COVID-19 emergency, SEVP will allow F-1 and/or M-1 students to temporarily count online classes towards a full course of study in excess of the limits... This temporary provision is only in effect for the duration of the emergency" Absolutely nothing substantive has changed since then, but ICE has apparently changed its mind and- implausibly- decided the emergency is over. It's absurd.

https://www.ice.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Document/2...

The university i'm associated with, because of the pandemic, not only all the international students are having online classes, but the international grad students teaching the classes are giving them online too.

And all those grad students on a teaching scholarship were told to remain in the US because their scholarship is tied to being residents of the State for some tax reason or another for the institution.

fun times.

Couldn't they offer a required in-class portion of their degree (INT 5001: "Let's Talk about COVID and being international students for 20 minutes") for all international students where completion is required for their degree but attendance is optional? Effectively, no one physically goes to the class, but it's enough to keep students in the US because it's not an online-only class.

The regulations are written so as to exclude the possibility[0]. I wouldn't play chicken with ICE. Get this wrong, and you can be held in immigration detention until ICE can convince your home country to let them deport you back[1], which may be a while considering countries have been travel-banning the US on public health grounds.

[0] "For F-1 students enrolled in classes for credit or classroom hours, no more than the equivalent of one class or three credits per session, term, semester, trimester, or quarter may be counted toward the full course of study requirement if the class is taken on-line or through distance education and does not require the student's physical attendance for classes, examination or other purposes integral to completion of the class." https://www.nafsa.org/_/file/_/amresource/8cfr2142f.htm

[1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/ice-fake-u...

The regulations will be updated (new regs will be in the Federal Register as a Temporary Final Rule) and the limit of one class / three credits will be lifted for students attending universities following a hybrid model.

https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/sevp-modifies-temporary-ex...

I don’t know if that would work. The whole reason for the on-site requirement is to avoid or clamp down on Visa scams. And a loophole like that is exactly what a scam school would do.

It wouldn't, and if you tried, you'd end up with this all over again:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/ice-fake-u...

ICE generally is not fond of people circumventing the rules. You'd basically be taking your students' tuition and then rolling the dice to see how badly they get punished by ICE, possibly including imprisonment, deportation, and a lifetime ban from the US.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com