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Comment by bouk | Hacker News Reader

SEPA transfers are free :)

Amounts of 50,000€ are treated differently. Previously this was the maximum amount you could transfer. Now they just convert the transfer to SWIFT or some other protocol and you get charged accordingly.

They certainly are not. Not between countries (even if they are EU countries and both use the Euro) and not for 1 billion Euros/Dollars.

Edit: A lot of people here are saying "I do not pay for it so it is free". Just because you don't pay does not mean it is free for everyone. The law just states that fees must be the same for domestic and EU transfers, not that the transfer is free and, there are countless examples of regions where there are no banks that charge nothing (especially regions where a lot of intra-EU immigrants come from).

> Not between countries (even if they are EU countries and both use the Euro)

If your bank is charging differently for transfers to euro denominated accounts in other countries, complain to the regulator. This isn't allowed.

A) Not charging differently does not mean it is free (which was the original argument).

B) The "target" bank can still charge you independently of your bank.

E.g. (and I do this kind of transfer very very often so I am 100% sure it is so and I am also 100% sure this is legal): A transfer from Germany to Germany is free. A transfer from Germany to Greece is not as the Greek bank charges a fee.

So the receiving bank applies a fee, but the fact it's in Greece has nothing to do with anything. Don't do business with crappy banks.

Plenty of people regularly do cross-border SEPA transfers for free. I do, and I'm not even in the EU/Eurozone.

All banks in Greece charge a fee. The fact that plenty of people do SEPA transfers for free means nothing for the other people (e.g. the whole population of Greece) that can not do SEPA transfers for free.

So don't do business with Greek banks?

What stops you from doing day-to-day banking in Greece using a German account? That's kinda the whole point of the Euro.

First of all, you are not allowed to have a German account if you are not a resident of Germany.

Besides that, this is not the point of the conversation. The original comment compared SEPA to Bitcoin, saying that SEPA is better since it is free. It is not. There is no law that mandates it to be free and it is de facto not free everywhere (it might be for your use case but not for everyone). It is many times a lot more expensive than Bitcoin. If I also elect to not transact with Greek bank accounts, I exclude 99.9% of the Greek economy since I have no influence on what kind of account my counterpart has.

> First of all, you are not allowed to have a German account if you are not a resident of Germany.

Of course you are! Have you never heard of N26? And even some traditional banks will happily have you as a non-resident customer.

Direktbanken (i.e. purely online Banks) are an exception but they come with their own set of asterisks and are not a blanket solution as you can't open an account from all European countries.

There is no such exception. Banks are free to do business with whomever they wish. Direktbanken are usually probably the hardest to open an account with if you are a resident abroad.

Deutsche Bank is well known for offering accounts to non-residents. Pretty much any Sparkasse will open an account for you if you walk in even without a German address.

The list of banks that don't offer accounts to non-residents is probably shorter than the other. Granted, these are mostly the ones with the best offers.

They certainly are, just not for 1b.

Transfer 10 Euro to Greece and let me know how much of it will actually get there.

From a Euro bank account all 10 euro should arrive.

They do not, around 7 Euro will arrive (depending on your bank, but all Greek banks charge a fee). I am a Greek expat in Germany, I do those kinds of transactions very often.

Technically yes but SEPA is not quite so ubiquitous and definitely not so quick. Even within Euope more often then not I just end up paying the fee and doing my international transfers via TransferWise anyway.

I transfer quite a bit of money to our freelancers all over Europe and SEPA has served us very well, I'd definitely not use a service like TransferWise over regular banks for such payments, and that's besides the ease of integration with our accountants who can now easily match up invoices with payments from the current account.

I understand it as a business but sadly banks in e.g. Bulgaria add extra fees on top of SEPA transfers which you can sometimes avoid and sometimes not.

It is interesting you think that $1 billion could be transferred in that system (pseudo)anonymously, at any time of day or night, for 48 cents... if something that size could be done at all.

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