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Comment by mschuster91 | Hacker News Reader

That truck driver guy with the 30.000 US$ bill - what? Let's generously assume he hasn't paid a single bill in 10 years to have that bill in 2013. That's 3.000 US$ a year or 250$ a month?!

How is this possible? Here in Germany average water bill is around that in a whole year!

What is the US doing with all the money? People pay a roughly thousand dollars on average based on the numbers in this article, and have abysmal service, no maintenance, and sometimes outright toxic water (Flint, the fracking areas where the water is flammable). Where is that excess money going?

[0] https://www.t-online.de/heim-garten/energie/id_77342378/wass...

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I can't speak for the rest of the US, but I have a family of 4, and we pay maybe $50/mo for our water bill, so maybe $600/year. More than the German average, but not egregious. Relative to a lot of other countries, the US is kind of more like strong union of a bunch of countries (states)-- each with unique environments and ecosystems-- than it is like a united, single country. So, you can say: "Americans are like ___", and you can almost certainly find a spot in the US where your statement holds true.

As for costs, the US has wildly variable costs on most things, depending on where you live. For example, I pay $1.50 per gallon for gas, but one state up, it's above $2.00. I live in a comfortable house, and pay less for my mortgage + taxes than folks in New Jersey pay just in taxes on a smaller house. This variance is a side-effect of a more decentralized governmental system where states have a lot of power, combined with a wide variation in environments / scarcity across the country.

Germany isn't that much different, the federal government has a bit more power but generally people from one state differ much from another. Compare Berlin and Bavaria, if you want an example. Bavaria is one of the more expensive states to live in and Berlin is somewhat cheap (other former ostblock states are even cheaper) and on the other hand we have the highest average income and pay into the other federal states the most.

Cost of water, electricity and food differ between states. A Döner Kebab in Berlin costs around 3.50€ by my experience, in Bavaria a comparable one costs around 5-7€.

You can't easily say "Germans are like ___", most of the international stereotypes are born out of the WW2 occupation of bavaria, not much else.

Germany is smaller than Montana. The sheer size of the US means that people live in wildly different environments and climates, and operate very different local governments/civic infrastructure state by state. Like the parent says, if you make a generic statement it's very likely that there is a place where that applies, but it certainly cannot cover the entire continent.

Due to it's structure, Europe experiences wildly different weather, climate and culture. Every german state has slightly different average weather. The north is more often exposed to rain and extreme temperatures, the south has a more temperate climate, etc. Just because it's smaller than some arbitrarily sized state in the US doesn't mean a place can't be diverse.

I don’t know for sure, but one of the most shocking things to me has been the presence of private water companies outside of municipalities completely screwing their customers left and right (I live in Texas).

I had a friend who moved her parents up to a new development a couple hours north of Austin, and just outside the city limits. The couple thought they’d save a ton of money not having to pay city property taxes. The tradeoff meant that they didn’t get city water, their water was supplied by a private company.

Their new water bill was significantly higher, and they had no real recourse to fight their new rates. Everyone needs running water. It’s the perfect product to hold your customers captive with, and that company makes so much money exploiting that situation.

Why is there not competition?

Sounds like a job for local lobbying!

We moved to a town with no municipal trash pickup. There are three private companies I can use. I pay $40/mo for one barrel of trash, and one of recycling every two weeks. Instead of one truck picking up trash on a route, there are at least three trucks picking up trash and driving through our neighborhood. In this instance, each of us negotiating independently with the vendor, and having 3x the traffic, doesn't make sense to me.

Water supply is a natural monopoly—if a private company has built the infrastructure, they may own the pipes.

Competition is unlikely for two important reasons: first, because you really don't want 23 different sets of pipes running everywhere (or the ground being dug up 23 separate times, with the attendant collateral damage, including to the existing pipes); second, because the cost and red tape involved with running your own pipes is a huge barrier to entry.

That, plus the obvious fact that everyone needs water to live, is exactly why water should always and everywhere be a public utility, operated for the public good.

Alot of localities sell the water system or the operating rights to private entities, who have a shareholder obligation to rip off consumers.

My partner ran finance for a municipal water utility in a small, old US city. Average bill for a consumer was around $400/year, about 40% of which was capital expense for the sewer system (which requires alot of investment), 15% water capital expenses, and the remainder opex. That's in a high-cost state with union labor, etc. It was a surface water system, so their filtering and pumping expenses were low.

The other thing to keep in mind that anything new is much more expensive. Eminent domain and construction is 10x more than it was a hundred years ago.

You are taking an extreme example, where they do not even mention his usage, and then extrapolating that to the entire U.S. It's entirely possible he has a leak and is spewing thousands of gallons of water into the ground or some weird thing.

We use ~3k gallons per month for normal use. In the summer months this goes up a fair bit because we water our lawn. But our overall bill is like $20/mo-$30/mo for water.

Wow that's a lot. We use a few hundred per month, and that's mostly laundry.

Our bill is $0 because we have a well. Ok, it cost $5000 (for well and septic) 30 years ago, so divide that out and its been $13/mo

I suspect you would be surprised how much water you use - for a family of 3, we use about 2000 per month and don't water the lawn or anything exciting - just showers, laundry, dishes, drinking, whatnot.

Also, it's some amount of money a month on electricity for the pump - even if it's $10/month you are still WAY lower than most folks' bills, but still it's a cost that those on town/city water don't have to pay since it's gravity-forced into their house.

Which makes me wonder - why doesn't everyone put in a well? The city is supposed to be able to do better, but apparently that doesn't mean 'cheaper'. So what does it mean?

In NYC, monthly water and sewer for a family might be around $50-75. (Most city residents don't pay that bill directly; it's paid by the landlord who factors the expected cost into the rent.)

One reason for the relatively high water bills is infrastructure investment, for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Water_Tunnel_No....

Seems like the guy is in a fight with the water department. He probably got a huge bill, refused to pay it because he considered it erroneous, then racked up lots of interest.

> Where is that excess money going?

Salaries, most likely. Professionals in Germany earn way less than in the US. This is also the main reason why healthcare is so much more expensive.

The flip side of this is that non-professionals in the US don't earn as much.

I don't think salaries are why healthcare is so much more expensive: This would account for some costs, but not all of them. The healthcare system in the US is really fragmented and wasteful, so resources aren't pulled together to give the people the best benefit. Heck, we don't even standardize health insurance codes so that offices can hire fewer people nor are there standard costs for the consumer through an area (easing billing a bit), nor protect doctors from unreasonable false malpractice claims.

Not only that, but part of the reason salaries are higher is because of the cost of becoming a doctor... or nurse or any other healthcare professional that requires a degree.

The article talks about additional penalties and interest being tacked on.

in Atlanta, where i live, a normal water bill is between $75 and $200 per month but I think we have some of the most expensive service in the country.

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