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Comment by SamuelAdams | Hacker News Reader

Don't forget the TSA travel master keys, which can now be 3-D printed by anyone using this repo: https://github.com/Xyl2k/TSA-Travel-Sentry-master-keys

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You can use a ball point pen to pop open the zipper on any luggage.

I understand that the illusion of control is very helpful for nervous passengers, but your luggage is leaving your control and it's mostly nylon fabric and plastic.

Yes, but you're missing the forest for the trees. A government entity (TSA) had a thing built specifically for their needs ("secure" locks for luggage) and promised they would be the only ones capable of unlocking it. Then somehow the "secret" they promised to protect (physical keys) got leaked out somehow and now the entire thing is security theater.

Also I think they used these locks on handgun / firearm containers that were declared when travelers with a CPL or LEO people traveled. Those are typically put into a hard container that is difficult to open unless you unlock the lock.

EDIT: last paragraph is wrong, please ignore that. Thanks guys.

I don’t think you have to use a TSA lock on luggage with a firearm [1]. If it meets the legal definition of a “firearm” you trigger (get it?) the TSA rules that allow you to use a non-joke lock. Since this includes just the legal firearm you don’t even have to carry an actual gun to prevent the TSA from sniffing your undies.

Deviant Ollam gave an (in)famous talk [2] about this at Defcon.

[1]: https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunit...

[2]: https://youtu.be/KfqtYfaILHw

That's a funny hack. However, this looks like conflicting advice:

"Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations. You may use any brand or type of lock to secure your firearm case, including TSA-recognized locks."

If you use a TSA lock, that means they have a key to open up the case and access the firearm without you around. That's a big no-no and could result in problems with the law.

You'd also probably want to show up an extra hour early because this could cause long delays. Some airports are notorious for workers who don't know the regulations, don't want to be responsible for any of it, and will refuse to do anything to help you resolve the situation. Also, definitely don't try this if you're flying through New York or New Jersey.

I agree that paragraph seems contradictory. I guess I have a slightly lower opinion of the TSA now.

What’s important is that you don’t have to use a TSA lock. You just have to open it for them if they ask.

> Also, definitely don't try this if you're flying through New York or New Jersey.

Why?

CPL's are typically granted at the state level, but not all states need to recognize your CPL as valid. So it's perfectly legal for me to fly from Detroit to New York with a firearm, because the TSA staff in Detroit, MI legally recognize my MI CPL.

However, the TSA agents in NY do not recognize my MI CPL. As a result when I fly back from NY to MI, I could get arrested for carrying a firearm.

More on this here: https://www.theblaze.com/news/2018/01/18/colorado-woman-decl...

That has to do with concealed carry. Putting a firearm in your suitcase does not require a CPL, nor does it require concealed or even open carry. I'm sure it's still legal to transport a firearm in New York.

To be clear, this rule can be triggered by a flare gun or starting pistol. Traveling with those seems perfectly reasonable and I don't see why a CPL would be required.

> If you use a TSA lock, that means they have a key to open up the case and access the firearm without you around. That's a big no-no and could result in problems with the law.

Why? If a TSA person unlocks it in accordance with their procedures, surely that's fine (and is what they would do anyway, just getting the key from you first)? If a TSA person abuses their position to open your luggage with their master key against their procedures, surely that's not your problem - more akin to a criminal breaking open your luggage than anything else.

The problem is not access to the luggage. The problem is access to the firearm. That is why when you are transporting a firearm TSA does not retain the ability to access the firearm outside of your supervision.

TSA's procedures are as robust as a high school recital of A Midsummer Night’s Dream. The TSA knows this and so when it matters (like when firearms are involved) the rules change.

Most locks have master keys and most find their way into the hands of sufficiently motivated criminals, right? Is there any lock you could put on your firearm case for which there wouldn't be authorised people who had the master key to it?

I don't think your initial assertion is correct and even if it is nothing requires you to use such a lock.

Most high security locks can be re-keyed. There's no need for it to be keyed to any existing master. I consider that better than "one of these 6 predefined TSA keys that can be 3d printed oh and also it is labelled."

Nor does the threat model of "dedicated attacker" make a lot of sense. If that is your constraint then flying with complete guns is probably not for you.

There are easier ways for criminals to get guns than a mole in the TSA or baggage handling. Like, stores. A decent padlock can secure a gun case beyond the "crime of opportunity" level required for protection in a secured environment like an airport.

If you're really paranoid you can even build in trap pins so attempting picking or using the wrong key can permanently bind the lock. The point is you are in full control of the lock and don't have a government mandated, well understood backdoor included.

Finally, all of this misses the point which is that you can put a firearm such as a starting pistol, flare gun, frame or lower [1] in your luggage and use whatever lock you want. This means you can protect the rest of your stuff from getting swiped by TSA or baggage handlers.

[1]: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-guides-importation-ver...

Can you explain how using a TSA lock on a gun case you're flying with, if you want to, is "a big no-no and could result in problems with the law"? That's the part I'm disagreeing with. Surely if a knave uses a stolen master key (or makes unauthorised use of a master key they have as part of their job) to open your gun case, that's not your liability.

> Can you explain how using a TSA lock on a gun case you're flying with, if you want to, is "a big no-no and could result in problems with the law"?

I'm not sure, those are not my words. Ask swimfar.

It strikes me as simply irresponsible gun ownership although I'm not sure what legal liability that may open you up to.

Again, the point of bringing this up is that you can decide to use an actual secure lock to protect your property if you just put a "firearm" in your luggage. It's not actually about firearms at all. It's about protecting yourself from an obviously broken and exploitable government backdoor.

> and now the entire thing is security theater.

I am not the one missing the forest for the trees.

It has always been security theater. From day 1. What's most galling is that quite a lot of the people participating here are young enough that they don't remember a time before the theater. If you are under 30 your first plane flight you can remember is probably after this all started.

Locks are mechanical, and a master key can be built by taking apart a lock and measuring the innards. In some cases you can create a master key by filing down the right teeth on a key you already have. Master keys in apartment buildings are an old, known problem to competitive lockpickers.

As other people are pointing out elsewhere in this thread, carrying a firearm requires that you use a lock-lock, not a TSA "lock".

> got leaked out somehow

They let the Washington Post take high-res pictures of the masters while supporting them doing a story about the TSA and those got published which was enough to decode the keys.

Yep. And then you can just run the locked zipper back and forth over the opened section to close it, without any evidence of it having been opened.

Simply put: putting anything you can't replace into checked luggage is foolish.

The TSA is a lot more likely to steal your stuff than some random person with a printed key. Plus, if you use a real lock, they have the right to clip it off, which is trivial. Don't put stuff of value into checked luggage. Keep it on your person or ship it via a carrier who has insurance.

> Plus, if you use a real lock, they have the right to clip it off, which is trivial.

Life hack: you can pack a stripped AR lower, and it's legally a firearm. You must use a non-TSA lock, and the TSA (nominally) is not allowed to open it.

Though your core point is valid: your nylon luggage isn't going to keep anyone determined out.

I did not understand, what is a "stripped AR lower"?

And why is TSA not allowed to open it?

Edit: I guess AR is Assault Rifle?

In the US (not sure about your location or the laws in other countries), the part of an AR-15 that qualifies as the "firearm" in the eyes of the law is the lower receiver. It's a machined block of metal and does not do anything on its own.

When transporting a firearm through air travel, it's supposed to be locked such that only the owner can open it. So you can claim you're carrying a firearm with nothing but a small-ish piece of metal in your luggage.

For illustration: https://i.imgur.com/ARZgZV6.png. The non-transparent part is the lower receiver.

As an aside, the "AR" in AR-15 stands for Armalite Rifle (after the company that originally designed it); not "assault rifle".

thanks for the explanation. I am not living in US, so not very familiar.

Or check a metal case with a lock the TSA can't open: buy a flare gun (legally a firearm, cheaper than normal guns), declare it, and have your other valuables in the same bag. Legally firearms must be in checked luggage, without ammunition, in hard cases (not soft bags), locked by a mechanism only the owner can open.

But unless you travel with valuables quite often it is definitely cheaper to ship it insured.

This sounds like a better idea than flying with AR-15 parts. Less likely to scare people, and less likely to raise flags or get put on some list.

I feel like a flare gun is more likely to scare than a lower receiver. A flare gun immediately looks like "a gun" whereas a block of metal doesn't look very threatening (assuming you don't have a tacti-cool one with skulls and garbage on it).

I only flew with a stripped lower once, and the baggage attendant at the Delta counter had to wave a TSA agent over because they did not believe it was a firearm. I never had an issue checking a handgun though.

More likely to scare, but since it's in a sealed case and looks like a firearm it's easier to get the attendant to accept that it is a firearm when checking it. It matches their expectations of what a gun should look like. And since it's in a sealed case nobody unexpected will see it anyway, so scares are unlikely.

Finding a smallish shoulder bag that I actually loved instead of just tolerated went a long way toward helping me winnow down my traveling kit. You trade a little more up-front hassle at the X-ray machines for keeping an eye on your stuff and not having to bother with the baggage carousel.

Those things were useless anyway, based on my experience. The one time I used them, TSA neglected to even try opening the lock carefully and simply broke the zipper getting into my luggage.

> Recently, pictures of TSA master baggage keys got leaked by the Washington Post and also PDFs hosted on TravelSentry's Website.

I'm glad we don't need to trust the TSA with following any kind of security protocols. /s

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