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Comment by rexreed | Hacker News Reader

Side topic: the rental car industry is a dinosaur walking. Just like Netflix and video-on-demand put Blockbuster out of business, Uber and rideshare companies are slowly putting the kabosh on rental car business.

I can't remember the last time I really needed to rent a car. Maybe for the random site-seeing roadtrip. But vacationers aren't rental company's bread and butter: it's business travelers. And business travelers are seeing much more convenience from rideshare than from rentals. The hassle of renting a car, parking, tolls, gas, dealing with insurance and liability, and just the shenanigans of rental car companies is not worth the hassle.

It took a solid decade before the impact of video on demand was felt on Blockbuster, but it was inevitable.

Just how COVID is bringing the water out of shore on the low tide, all it is doing is exposing already weak companies. Those that fail can't simply blame COVID, altho it's certainly a contributor. For some, the writing was already on the wall.

In 10 years we'll be writing the post-mortem on the rental car industry.

View on HN

Prior to COVID, I was solid consumer of business rentals.

Rideshare is good for getting to the airport and back, but if I'm spending a few days at the destination (which in my case is usually suburban), a rental car can be both cheaper and more convenient than rideshare in smaller, underserved markets and in the suburbs. Also if you're making multiple stops of indefinite length, catching rideshare each time can be frustrating. Rideshares also have a limited radius while rentals don't. If you need to drive 2-3 hours from the airport to your destination, it's easy on a rental but not really advisable on a rideshare (possible but rideshare drivers hate it).

I wonder if the problem with car rentals maybe isn't the business model, but how modern the operations are.

I'm with National so I get to pick my own car. National has really nice cars so sometimes I end up with nice rides like Audi A3s for the price of a midsize (~$30/day -- I have free executive membership through my credit card). It's really not that much of a hassle with the app -- get off plane, walk to lot, pick a nice car, drive off. Driver's license, credit card + insurance etc. are all electronic. No dealing with any CSR. Only human interaction is at the exit where they check your DL (or QR code on your phone), scan your car's barcode and then open the barrier arm. My avg time to check-out is ~10 minutes, and returns are ~5 mins (excluding gas fill-up). This is with National.

The Hertz experience is much more plodding. Their systems are a little more archaic. You have to check in at the counter if you don't have Hertz Gold, and you can't pick your own car. They're more expensive than other rental companies but their vehicles definitely are not nicer. Hertz has the largest market share but the worst customer experience of the majors.

Good insights, and definitely reflects the reality of the year 2020. But let's bring ourselves back to the year 2000 when Internet was slow, Netflix didn't exist, and the business model for video rental was strong. Back then it was hard to see the writing on the wall.

Bring ourselves back to 2020. We have some new factors that we have visibility into that are changing the dynamic for the rental car industry:

* Work is becoming increasingly remote. People are becoming more comfortable not traveling for business meetings or conferences.

* The gig economy is heating up. Even if the rideshare business is still in its relative nascence, there is no doubt that the rideshare will continue to be a trend.

* It's quite possible that the ride share firms will move to a subscription-based model (closer to Netflix) rather than a consumption-bsaed model (closer to Blockbuster) in the future. Paying per-ride has its hassles. A monthly fixed subscription model with predictable consumption limits can change the picture.

Your $30/day rental probably didn't end up being $30/day. With all the extra fees (which usually doubles the daily rate or more), gas, parking, and tolls, you're probably spending closer to $60-$70/day. This is a daily rate. Would you pay $100-$200 on a monthly rate for unlimited trips within a radius? Possibly, if there was sufficient ride share supply.

The problem of course is on the supply side. How do you pay drivers a share of a monthly subscription model when supply-side pricing is on a consumption-basis while demand-side pricing is on a subscription-basis? This is the challenge for the industry. But I think that challenge will be solved.

No doubt the external factors post-COVID will alter the travel landscape and I've no good feeling on where that's going to take us.

So there's one big factor that plays into all of this: for business travel, the company's paying. Employees don't really bear the cost, so the incentive is to choose the more convenient option. Parking etc. can all be expensed (not a big deal with Spothero, etc.). And companies usually have negotiated rates with rental car companies. So there's inertia.

I just checked my National invoice for my last LAX rental: the nominal daily rate for was $31/day, but with airport concession fees, tax, etc. it came out to $37/day (the car was a 2019 Dodge Challenger). I don't remember how much I paid for gas but gas is pretty cheap these days so it couldn't have been more than $40 (200 miles driven). So yes daily rate is higher, but not really double.

Would I pay $100-$200 for unlimited trips on rideshare? Not for business travel, no because like I said, for the non-urban geographies I work in, a rental car is just more convenient and the company's paying (plus my time costs money).

For personal trips? Well, Lyft does have a subscription program for commuters but I'm probably not the target demographic (I have my own car for groceries, but otherwise I walk everywhere or take the L). I also have a free Lyft Pink subscription through my credit card but that hasn't really increased my Lyft use.

I suspect during COVID the attractiveness of rideshare will actually decline -- I'm personally wary of getting into a confined space with someone else even with every precaution taken. But post-COVID, it's likely things will return to normal. Rideshare has been and will likely continue to be an important component of my urban transport mix. I just don't see it being dominant over all others.

Agree with you. I don't think the demise of rental companies is immediate or imminent, but I believe it is inevitable. The forces are indelible.

BTW, your calculation agrees with my statement. $37 for car including fees, $30-$40 in gas, plus unknown parking. I was spitballing $60-$70 for day, and it seems those things do indeed add up to that amount. Higher gas prices, more expensive parking, and longer commutes make those figures even moreso.

I agree with you that if the business foots the tab, the employee might not care and would just go for convenience. But the biggest factor impacting business travel is not the cost of rental cars, but the shift to virtual events and remote meetings. This is another indelible force for the rental industry.

As mentioned, I think the demise is not in these next few years, but by 2030 I believe we'll be writing the post-mortem on rental cars and how the industry has transitioned to something else.

Uber's made some difference for me at the margins. I've never tended to get a rental car if I'm just going from the airport into a city and back. But I did tend to e.g. if I were going to some location around Silicon Valley even if the car were mostly just going to sit in a cheap/free hotel parking lot. It was generally easier and it meant I had a car if I wanted to run out to a store or whatever.

Uber pricing and convenience make me think harder about the equation. If I'm really pretty much just going to a hotel for a few days, it's probably a wash so I may just take the Uber.

I'll still rent if I'm going to also be visiting friends or going for a hike--or taking a longer drive to somewhere that I may not even have cell reception. But definitely less than I used to even pre-COVID. And I imagine that urbanites who default to not driving rent even less.

Are you booking your cars at a rate negotiated by your employer? Aside from getting a free rental credit every X days, I don't see anything about discounts in the Emerald Club benefits section.

Playing around with variations on a 7/13-7/17 M-F rental (also trying 7/11-7/18 Sat-Sat, checking in Manhattan, at LGA, and at DSM in Des Moine, IA for comparison) I'm seeing numbers 1.5-3x higher. I'm curious if the difference is entirely price discrimination or if there is something else like a negotiated bulk rate at play.

Numbers are for lowest tier car, same pickup and drop off location.

Manhattan M-F: $72/day base ($348 w/ taxes and fees)

Manhattan Sat-Sat: $59/day base ($501 all in)

LaGuardia Airport (luxury car, economy car is $22/day more) M-F: $94/day base ($512)

LGA Sat-Sat: $73/day base ($693 total)

Des Moines International Airport (standard car, economy car is $6/day more) M-F: $92/day base, $472 total

Des Moines International Airport Sat-Sat: $49/day base ($463 all-in)

----

So...

1. Lowest I'm seeing is $49/day, which is why I ask in the first place.

2. Pricing shenanigans of a Saturday to Saturday rental coming out cheaper than a Monday to Friday rental in the case of a) 7 day Manhattan vs 5 day LGA and b) 7 day DSM vs 5 day DSM are so frustrating. Surely there's room in the economy for a competitor who offers transparent, predictable pricing? Dealing with industries where you know they are milking you based on reverse IP look up/browsing history/demographic profile is infuriating. How can someone be loyal to any company whose pricing model is "the absolute most we think we can get out of you, personally"?

> Are you booking your cars at a rate negotiated by your employer?

Yes. But I believe I get the same prices on my personal account.

> I don't see anything about discounts in the Emerald Club benefits section.

This may be why. I'm Emerald Executive -- my employer has negotiated Executive tier for every employee. I also have the same tier on my personal account through my credit card.

I don't rent cars in NYC (that's one place where rentals are inadvisable -- NYC is hostile to driving). But just priced out DSM for you 7/11 - 7/17. For Economy and Compact = $152/week base, $219 total with fess included. Midsize = $157/week base, $226 total with fees included.

(Someone else with Executive membership but without a company negotiated rate, please verify.)

With Executive level membership, I can get a midsize and pick any vehicle from the Executive aisle. This can be anything from an SUV to a lower-end luxury car. This is why National is amazing.

> How can someone be loyal to any company whose pricing model is "the absolute most we think we can get out of you, personally"?

It's differential pricing as a result of yield management [1]. You can hate on it but it's part of the reason the economics even works for certain classes of goods and services. Without it, large swaths of services in the hospitality industry (hotels, airlines, etc.) would not be accessible to the masses or be profitable.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yield_management

> For Economy and Compact = > $152/week base, $219 total with fess included. Midsize = $157/week base, $226 total with fees included.

Thanks for taking the time to look this up. $226 vs $472 is wild. 2.1x the price for the same service.

Playing around with other car companies at DSM for 7/11-7/18:

- Budget: $347 all-in

- Avis $410 all-in

- Hertz $484 all-in

- Enterprise $374 all-in

I was expecting all of these prices to be pretty similar given "economy class rental car" feels like it would be fairly commoditized.

> It's differential pricing as a result of yield management [1]. You can hate on it but it's part of the reason the economics even works for certain classes of goods and services.

Being familiar with the concept doesn't make it more enjoyable to be the one being fleeced!

I thought that the car-share model is pretty well established in Europe? I think it has basically died in the US though:

- Zipcar got bought out by Avis (big traditional car rental company), and many properties terminated their contracts with Zipcar

- BMW's car share program left both the SF and Seattle markets

- In SF, the problems preventing carshare were mostly regulatory -- they couldn't get permission to use on-street parking (made both public transit and car-ownership factions unhappy)

- Lyft started a pilot of traditional full-day car rentals(!)

The market for carshare ends up being an awkward market in the US.

Ride share solves urban car problems far better than the old taxi services — mostly problems around parking.

Carshare tries to solve the parking problem, but for long or complex urban trips, or trips involving city to suburbs and back.

But for longer trips in areas where parking isn’t a problem, carshare doesn’t add much compared to established rental car networks (or owning).

Uber ended up really squeezing car share.

Traditional rental mostly continued to be the better choice for weekend rentals or maybe even long day rentals, unless car share had a pickup location advantage.

But Uber took a slice out of short-term private transportation for trips that weren't too long or too complex. I know a couple who live car-less in SF and they still use Zipcar and whatever the competitor is. But it's a pretty narrow use case.

> It's quite possible that the ride share firms will move to a subscription-based model (closer to Netflix) rather than a consumption-bsaed model (closer to Blockbuster) in the future. Paying per-ride has its hassles. A monthly fixed subscription model with predictable consumption limits can change the picture.

Yea, I'm not buying it. People generally won't switch to a subscription unless they think it's going to save them money. And these companies are struggling for profitability as it is.

Me neither. What pay-per-ride hassle? The rental companies I use have my credit card on file.

Actually, from a business use perspective, pay-per-ride is probably a lot simpler. I expense the rental. A company is probably not going to typically let you expense a subscription fee unless it were some subscription for the whole company which seems as if it would be challenging for a variety of reasons.

As someone uses both rentals and ubers when traveling. Rentals are still really a necessity. Uber/Lyft/etc drivers can and still are super picky of their rides and will reject your pickup for awhile just because they can grab longer routes by multi-apping.

I do have Hertz Gold, but I've never paid for it. I think I originally got it due to a credit card promotion, but they renew it every year, for free.

My experience of renting has always been just like you describe for National. Walk to the lot, find my name on the screen, go the indicated row, pick any car from that row, get in, drive out.

I've been Hertz-loyal all this years precisely because the experience is so zero-effort.

lol, I've never had such a good experience renting a car. I suppose because I've never really rented from an airport. They somehow almost always take at least 30-45 minutes. And don't get me started about enterprise.

"My experience of renting has always been just like you describe for National."

This is my experience with Hertz Gold as well and I suspect it is about the same with all rental car companies: if you are a member of their club, you can breeze right through and drive off the lot in about five minutes.

Except abroad ... I can only speak about European cities, but the Hertz locations have no idea what I am talking about when I talk about my name on the screen or just grabbing the car and driving out - they think I am a crazy person and they work for Hertz. Renting in Europe is the same (terrible) experience as walking up to a rental desk in the US as a non-member.

How are you vacationing without a rental car on a tropical island, like Hawaii? Uber/Lyft might be workable on Oahu, but on any other Hawaii islands rental car is a necessity unless you just stay in your resort all day long.

Or any of the national parks that's far enough you can't drive your own car all the way from your home? After you finished your activities for the days and are ready to go back to your hotel, you might not even have phone signal to call Uber/Lyft in the national park.

I guess you and me just have very different definitions to "vacation".

Agreed. Kona/Waikoloa area resorts are so spread out you would have to drive.

This is true in places like Denver as well. It can get tough to get rental cars in the winter or in summer (spring and fall are better) because of vacationers going a number of hours from the airport. Uber/Lyft don’t really help with those trips. Generally I do Uber/Lyft in Denver because it’s more convenient if a bit more expensive.

Solid point. So many vacations require a rental car. Thinking of my last few vacations, ski trip to Colorado, Glacier National Park in Montana, Marco Island in Florida. None of those would be practical with ride sharing and even if they were it would be far less comfortable.

I actually agreed with you in my comment above. I said aside from the sight-seeing vacation or roadtrip, I don't see the rental value.

But vacationers aren't the bread-and-butter of rental car companies, business travelers are, which make up 75%+ of revenues.

Many American cities also decentralized their business cores, and developed suburban office parks far flung from airports, the city, any infrastructure, or each other, but very convenient for the managers who live along the fairway at the nearby country club. For those cities, it's impossible to get a rideshare from the suburbs. Unless you are in a college town, drivers do not patrol there and you will be waiting for a car to come from downtown or the airport to pick you up and take you to your hotel. The rental rate might even work out ahead given how expensive rideshare gets over time and distance.

They have their place in vacation spots with poor pedestrian infrastructure, and middle ground cities with poor uber/lyft service. Rental cars might be done in boston and nyc, but still viable in Cleveland where getting a lyft from a suburban office campus could mean 30 minutes of waiting for the driver who grabbed your request all the way from downtown to show up.

You know what else is viable in remote, beautiful locations? Blockbuster. Doesn't mean you should bet on it sticking around as a major publicly-traded company.

It will not disappear. If you don't own a car, renting is interesting. In my city we have a few car sharing solutions. My favorite one is non-profit and provide electric jaguars, vans, and family cars. Another one is owned by the state and provides eletric Renault everywhere in the city.

They are very great solution in my opinion and it doesn't have the issues of classic car rentals. It takes seconds to rent one through an app and you don't need to see any human.

Sounds like you're agreeing with me. Redbox is an example of a video rental re-think company that's still doing ok even though Blockbuster failed. Did video rental go away completely? No. But the legacy industry collapsed spectacularly still.

The current industry is a dinosaur. The industry is going through a shakeup. Maybe it's car sharing, maybe it's a new rental model. Regardless, the existing Blockbuster-like, Sears-like, K-Mart like companies have a lot to be worried about.

Or with self-driving cars the rental industry will become the next uber since they won't need a driver. Everyone would just lease a "car privilege" from a rental company which (or others) would be picking you up whenever you need it following your patterns a fleet of cars will be shared among more people. This would reduce pollution, waste and traffic in large cities.

I don't disagree with that model, but I don't think that is "the next Uber". That is just Uber in a few years. It is common knowledge that self-driving cars are Uber's long game. They are trying their hardest to get there so they can eliminate their biggest cost; paying drivers.

And reduce another large cost: insurance

> they can eliminate their biggest cost; paying drivers.

and incur new costs of buying, maintaining, parking and cleaning the vehicles

How can this not be cheaper than doing all that and also drive people around?

Uber doesn't do that now.

But the drivers (whom they pay) do

And are doing it out of their own pocket. Uber isn't paying them to clean unless someone pukes in the car, and they certainly don't get anything to cover wear and tear and maintenance. However, drivers need to maintain a clean vehicle or else they get a poor rating and are forced out of the system, and need to maintain a working vehicle or else they cannot work that day. When you start to factor that in, your rate as a driver sinks like a stone.

I knew uber drivers are being exploited, but are you saying they actually operate at a loss?!

If someone bought the car exclusively for Uber, the math would've been simple. But people run their own personal errands, drive for Lyft, deliver for Doordash or Instacart, etc.

There's been an [older] thesis that in a nutshell, unless one happens to chase the surge, driving for Uber/Lyft/Grab is a money-losing proposition.

https://www.fastcompany.com/40538647/nearly-a-third-of-uber-...

And parking!

I disagree, but for personal reasons which I don't know how widespread they apply:

1) I travel frequently, for instance to the SV area which provides a good example. I opt to rent a car 95% of the time for my (US) trips, and the reason is that I prefer to move freely. When you're on the whim of an Uber (and in the States you usually can't walk anywhere), it's psychologically unpleasant having to rely on someone to constantly pick you up from somewhere. So much more liberating to have a car parked and move when you please.

2) When you end up moving, you can joyride, which I often do.

Maybe someone needs to do to rental cars what Uber did to Taxis.

If I could order one on my phone, have it be ready or turn up, and avoid all of that complexity over insurances and tolls then I would probably sell my own car and use that.

I’m sure the rental companies have some digital stuff, but I generally associate rental cars with queuing at an Avis counter for an hour after a long flight, lots of paperwork and getting hit with fees etc. For exactly this reason I tend to stick with Uber on business trips over rental cars.

That's basically what Silvercar does

Yeah. You pay a premium but the experience is very seamless and professional. Not something I could see scaling easily, at least how Silvercar operates, but really successful in its niche.

There are apps like this already, such as Turo, which I've used. Cheaper and a larger selection as it's other people's cars rather than the company's own fleet.

> I’m sure the rental companies have some digital stuff, but I generally associate rental cars with queuing at an Avis counter for an hour after a long flight, lots of paperwork and getting hit with fees etc. For exactly this reason I tend to stick with Uber on business trips over rental cars.

I just rented cars two times in the past two weeks. I was able to shop online between a few different rental car agencies (there’s only 3 big ones that own all the major brands, although I like to stick with Enterprise/Alamo/National). I made a reservation after a few minutes of shopping, I walked up to the counter, gave my ID and credit card, had the car in next 5 minutes and drove away in a total of 10 min max with the clean car that I wanted.

I’ve done this many times too. I don’t see why I would trust a random stranger more than a business who should have established best practices and proper insurance.

I also prefer proper hotels to stay in than random Airbnb. I don’t even have to talk to anyone at many Hilton branded hotels, and they have an online chat option in their app with the front desk.

My worry with both the car rental market as well as hotels is the constant upselling or offers/loyalty programs/etc.

The good part about Uber or Airbnb is that there isn’t any of that. You find what you want, pay the price they ask for and that’s it. I agree that there are other major problems with them but at least the user experience for buying the service is on point.

When it comes to hotels I either have to book direct and fill in my details every time (I don’t have a preference for any brand, so having an account with one particular brand doesn’t solve the problem either) or use sites like Booking/Expedia and suffer the constant upselling or dark patterns.

I don’t need your “loyalty” or “offers” or anything. I need you to tell me what’s available, take my money and get out of my way. I’d gladly pay money if such a service existed (that doesn’t belong to any particular hotel chain so that all the hotels are on there).

That's a good point. At my last stay at the Marriott near SFO I had a hard time figuring out what I could eat in the lobby for breakfast! There was a breakfast area for Ultra-platnum-gold club (or whatever they called it!) And a restaurant, but I wasn't sure how much that would cost me. Same thing with the WiFi, members only.

Uber is one company. It doesn't have all the drivers on it. You can make an account book direct at a hotel chain like you book direct at Uber.

> It doesn't have all the drivers on it.

It has a big enough majority that for all intents and purposes you can rely on it. They have other problems which is why I've stopped using it but at least in the locations I've been to, driver shortage was never the problem.

> You can make an account book direct at a hotel chain

This means I'd either need to find and sign up for all the potential hotels I'd be in the vicinity of in advance, or spend time signing up (and making sure to opt out of any marketing/loyalty/etc) a couple days before I arrive (I travel on very short notice).

That's the problem I'm trying to avoid. I want a single app/service/etc that will give me a big hotel selection (from several brands, and independent ones) with easy booking at a fair price (can be higher than the mainstream websites, I'm willing to pay more for convenience and to make sure the hotel isn't being ripped off) and no upselling.

All the times I needed a hotel it wasn't a planned thing - it was "I'm here in this coffee shop thousands of miles away from home and I need a bed to crash on". An app that can just find me the nearest place and a no-BS user experience would've been lovely even if it means paying a premium for the convenience.

Uh? All airbnb does is try to push you to their 'experiences'. And God forbid you ever gave Uber your email address, they'll try to get you on Uber Eats for many rounds of the 'unsubscribe me from yet another list I never realised I never signed up for' dance.

Regarding Airbnb it's been years since I last used it so maybe they changed in which case it's too bad.

As far as Uber is concerned I've used it up to last year and I don't recall ever getting an unwanted marketing e-mail from them (disabled all marketing comms in the app early on when I signed up and they respected that just fine).

> Maybe someone needs to do to rental cars what Uber did to Taxis.

Run up a multi-billion dollar loss?

I've been thinking about this for a year or so. There's a lot of pain points that could be solved:

* Insurance not included in prices displayed in search

* Underage surcharges not included in prices displayed in search

* Receiving a different model compared to what was booked

* Paperwork(sometimes digital Onan iPad) should all be done via an app

* Phone should unlock car

Some of the traditional rental companies have tried to solve some of these issues and there have been a few startups in the space. I'm not aware though of anyone trying to build a ground up tech first competitor to Hertz or Avis Budget. It is an expensive industry. SoftBank money would be needed to achieve scale.

These things you see as pain points are all profit centers. If you got rid of them the “list” price would go up and customers seem to prefer hidden fees to price transparency.

No, the market prefers price discrimination to flat fees.

Turo [1] is copying the AirBnB business model... rent out your car to strangers. (Well, I'm not going to, but I don't do AirBnB either).

[1] https://turo.com

Car2Go was pretty great. Hundreds of cars around town. Unlock any of them with the app, drive around, do what you need to do, then leave the car parked on the street wherever you end up and lock with the app, so someone else could drive it.

Unfortunately they merged with BMW's DriveNow and became "ShareNow" ... and pulled out of North America completely :(

These guys have made a start: https://www.govirtuo.com/

I love the idea of a rental car just turning up. There is a lot of hassle when renting a car, all the waiting in a queue at the service desk, all the questions, paperwork etc. If someone focused on making it convenient I'd love that. Uber style driver turns up and you swap seats. Everything done in advance online that needs to be done. No upselling in person - you've decided what insurance, paid for it, provided ID in advance. Next time you don't need to repeat the process. They don't bother checking for scratches (who scratches their rental car but outside of an actual crash?). It could be so so nice. It might make me choose a rental car where I would have previous thought "meh not worth it, just do an organised tour" or something.

The one use case that's missing in Uber &c are long-distance (conditionally: one-direction) road trips. My family preferred driving to flying if the destination was only a couple of states away (Chicago, music camps, college, ...) and we didn't want to put miles on our car.

With Hertz & friends, easy to rent a van, take it some where and either leave it there (and fly home) or drive back. It'd probably be a wash when milage depreciation is thrown in?

And driving with a cello is a lot better than flying... :-)

> and we didn't want to put miles on our car.

Surely the cost of renting a car is far, far higher than the depreciation on a car caused by driving the same distance?

Unless you have some status car like a Lexus or Audi.

Its roughly on the same order of magnitude.

Let's take a drive I did recently: Minneapolis to Boise. Twenty-ish hour drive; if you have a couple of drivers, you could maybe get it done in one day. Let's budget two days for car rental. Pick up, drive, stay over night, drive, drop off. Hertz is quoting me between $100 - $150/day depending on car size. Let's say 2 days @ $150 = $300. According to a random internet article [0], the cost of driving (minus gas -- which we're spending either way, though maybe in different quantities) is $0.16/mile (yes, includes maintenance -- forgot to mention earlier). Boise is 1450 miles away from Minneapolis @ $0.17/mile = $232. Yeah, a little more expensive; Hertz needs to break even after all. But not by as much as one might think. And for three passengers, much less than a short-notice flight.

[0]: https://www.mymoneydesign.com/what-is-the-real-cost-of-drivi...

My daily driver is fully paid for gaz guzzling. A long road trip on this old car will almost always necessitate an expensive garage visit for a tuneup. Or you can roll the dice and hopefully not breakdown somewhere.

If you've ever been stuck in foreign garage waiting for your car to be repaired you'll appreciate the convenience of having a national network of replacement cars at the ready.

I don't know about that. I live in Alpharetta that is an hour commute from Heartsfield Jackson International airport in Atlanta. In the last year, I had three business trips to the Bay Area - where I flew and took Lyft and Caltrain/Bart. However,I had two business trips that were a 5 hour drive away and in both cases I rented a car with Enterprise in Alpharetta and had them pick me up and drove the entire trip. I had a business trip to Denver and after evaluating ride share vs renting Hertz I took the rental and drove and parked at the hotel near the conference center. It was cheaper to rent than deal with the vagaries of ride share with a long drive from Denver International Airport to the University of Denver and if I would be picked up at 4 AM for my red eye back home the next day.

As someone over 25, renting a car is dead easy and seems to be cheaper than multiple ride shares. When I had business trips in smaller southeast cities, renting a car and actually driving the entire trip was more convenient than air travel because I got to listen to podcasts the whole way instead of dealing with the airport and still needing local transport when I got there.

I think you live in cities and look at everything from those lenses. Car rental is still thriving for business travels. Hertz actually served business customers more than Budget etc. When you go to places like Bay Area, Hawaii, Pudget Sound etc car rental is many time unavoidable. I don’t think Hertz went bankrupt because of ride share as OP suggests. There was another article which states how activist investors took over and loaded it up with debt transferring their assets.

No way. Insurance and hassle are always cheaper than paying labor. My employer can bid down rental cars to $40/day or less, which is less than almost any meaningful Uber round trip. Even for a individual like me, I can get Nissan Altima or whatever for $70-80 in most places.

You also have improved safety and security for employees vs John Doe and his 2010 Odyessy Uber that is falling apart. Uber is a shitshow experience compared to what it used to be.

I get car sick when riding, but I have no problem driving. I hope there's a place for me in 10 years when rental is dead and AI takes over the road.

Do you get sick on buses, trains, or planes?

Buses sometimes, trains and planes, not so much.

Huh, me too -- down to identical behavior as you with buses, planes, and trains.

If any of us ever figure out why, I'd love to know. It can get very difficult at times where I always have to drive and have to consider buses hard.

I think it's because you know where the car is going to do when you are in the driver's seat, so you can mentally brace yourself and adjust your internal balance systems accordingly. Whereas, as a passenger, you have to react to the car instead of controlling it and so your internal balance systems are always slightly behind the actual motion, causing motion sickness. This is probably extendable to planes, trains, and busses.

The ‘treatment’ that accidentally worked for me was desensitization through VR.

Interesting. Do you mean playing a specific game or just using VR in general?

Not any specific game, but some have character motion that isn't strictly coupled to player motion (e.g. performed by a controller like conventional first-person games), and I found that very unpleasant at first. Gradually I got used to this disconnected motion; the only thing that still made me queasy was disconnected rotation, but that is rare (moving platforms in Doom 3 are the only example I remember).

I used to suffer motion sickness as a passenger in cars, sometimes buses, and ships, but at least the first two went away along with the ‘VR sickness’. (I haven't been on a ship since.)

If you're ditching your car and trying to be more environmentally friendly then car rentals makes sense - have for us in the past at least. Car rental is cheaper for 2 or more people than taking the train; so rental is really useful for longer journeys (and you don't have to do taxi/bus transfers from the train station).

Business demand for rental vehicles doesn't seem to be falling?

You may be right, but only if Uber, Lyft and whatever competitors arise in the coming years actually turn a profit. There is a vast differences between an industry changing due to new business models vs. VC capital footing the bill for the change without solid, profitable transactions at its core.

The ride-sharing model is on the cusp of proving a sustainable business, but they aren't there yet.

Last time I rented a car it was because the hotel and airport were on opposite sides of a big city. Renting a car for 3 days was cheaper than two 40-mile Uber/Lyft trips.

Because airports are often located on the edge of a city, this is a pretty common situation. Convenience matters, but so does cost, so I expect rental car companies will continue to get this sort of business.

The problem with rentals is the rental companies are ing lowlife thieves. The last three times I've rented a car on holiday (Europe) I've been absolutely shafted and by three different companies (EuropCar, Hertz, and a local company).

I agreed until I had a kid, which makes Uber much less practical since it’s a hassle to install the car seat every time.

While ridesharing is killing the traditional rental car and taxi industry, it remains to be seen whether or not that's sustainable. All the big players are deeply unprofitable. Right now all this "disruption" we're seeing comes from companies burning vast amounts of money with no feasible path to profitability.

Whether or not ridesharing can survive without being subsidized by losing its investors billions of dollars remains to be seen.

I live in a big city but not in America.

I got a motorcycle which works perfectly when I Uber would be too expensive and Transports too slow.

Therefore I rent a car when I go on a holiday not too far away, it costs me less than $200 for 4 days and doesn't happen that often anyway so it's way less than investing in getting a decent car and maintaining it.

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