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Comment by melling | Hacker News Reader

"But the ErgoDox suffers on massive flaw, the thumb cluster is horrible for the outer thumb keys, half the buttons on the cluster are unusable/reachable and it's got this giant top."

Never used an ErgoDox. How do others find the thumb cluster?

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I use an ErgoDox EZ exclusively. I have fairly big hands and can comfortably hit 3 of the thumb keys on each side and regularly use them.

The other 3 aren't really reachable in a typing "stance" but can be used for functionality that is unrelated to typing but is useful to have dedicated keys for; for instance, I have one that is set to Win + Shift + Q which closes the currently active window in my i3wm setup, and a couple others I use for setting and going to code bookmarks in PyCharm.

Here's my current layout: https://configure.ergodox-ez.com/ergodox-ez/layouts/7JV4o/la...

I use an Ergodox. I have long thumbs but can only comfortably reach 2 (3?) of the 6 buttons in the thumb cluster. The whole point of the Ergodox for me was to avoid uncomfortable movements, so I don't use those keys.

I'm happy with the Ergodox, but if I ever need to replace it, I'll be looking at something with a reduced key set such as the Gergo.

I’m in the same situation. I have large hands but only use 2 thumb buttons per side and also use layers to avoid the top row of the keyboard altogether. I love the Ergodox but prefer to limit my reach for better ergonomics.

I have the EZ. I find it too different to use. It now sits in a closet because the 25% return fee is steep. I’ve always liked the Microsoft Ergo 4000. I got a cloudnine (mechanical, very similar to the 4000) and the EZ at the same time. I could type immediately on the cloudnine (~70wpm). The EZ was just too different. I couldn’t even type at half-speed. The vertical key layout and the different placement of all the “side keys” - I was not, and continue to not be, willing to reduce my typing speed so dramatically when I had the cloudnine that I could transfer two decades of typing experience to.

I've got an ErgoDox at home and a Kinesis Advantage II at work. I find the ErgoDox to be more sensible for light gaming (compared to the Kinesis), but the thumb cluster on the Kinesis is way easier (for me) to reach and navigate.

I've mostly adapted to the ErgoDox thumb cluster at this point, but prefer to do longer bouts of typing or coding on the Kinesis. The ErgoDex is more versatile but less comfortable.

>The ErgoDex is more versatile but less comfortable.

This has been my experience as well. I think the ErgoDex is likely more comfortable for people with smaller hands though. But the Kinesis feels about perfect for me. I have a Logitech T650 attached to the center with double-sided tape so it's also good for lap-typing when I need it.

That's accurate in my experience. I adjust my hands to use those which is fine if not optimal. I also find thumbs a little clumsy, particularly after a stretch to outer keys so multiple keys activate sometimes. My enter is center and backspace to it's right so I'll often delete the last character before sending chat.

The bottom-outer keys tend to be really awkward to use also.

I tried the Kinesis A. 2 before this and prefer ErgoDox but miss the curved keywells to reduce travel and really want more keys as I feel resistant to the layers thing. The Dactyl was attractive but I haven't had capacity for this kind of project for some time.

I find the thumb clusters perfectly sized and positioned. I can easily hit the bottom four keys on each cluster and can reach up to the top two without issues. I suspect this depends strongly on the size and flexibility of your hands.

I have fairly large hands and could hit all of the thumb keys. But I only use 2 so that I don’t have any reach or large movements when typing. I agree that it depends on hand size and your preference. Regardless, it has been an awesome keyboard for me due to customizing layout/layers.

Would you say you have big hands? Small hands? Normal sized hands?

I use one exclusively. I was a pianist at one point in my life. The ErgoDox is a game changer for my wrists and pinkies. I got back up to speed in a week. It's awesome for me.

They’re not supposed to be reachable. But there’s a slight adjustment needed to reach them for sure.

The outer thumbs work great for things like shift and delete. My right outer thumb is right shift. When I need to shift something on my left side, my right hand is always free to make that slight adjustment. It feels much better than having put all that on my weakest finger, the pinky.

The outer outer keys are absolutely not meant to be reachable. They’re macro keys for me (global microphone mute switch).

I don't use an ergodox but know someone who swears by it. I use a Lily58 and a Corne. Both run with the idea.

I have always noticed that I used only my left thumb for space on a regular 104 keyboard. So my right thumb was mostly useless. With a thumb cluster on either side I am forced to use both thumbs. I even assign keys I use a lot to the thumb cluster, especially the layer modifier. I am fairly adept at the split layout now, and refuse to use a 104 keyboard anymore.

He's right that the outer keys are hard to reach, but it's not a problem for me - I just put the least used keys there, e.g. insert, layer 3, right super, sysrq, and so on.

I can comfortably reach 3 keys with each hand. Its awesome. I bind stuff that isn't really used much during normal typing to the remaining 3 thumb keys. I would never go back to a keyboard without a thumb cluster after using this.

The Keyboardio is a similar idea, with the drawback IMO that its not ortholinear, but it has a better thumb cluster.

The Dactyl Manuform is another great option. The shape of it makes it easier to reach all 6 thumb cluster keys.

I find the ErgoDox thumb clusters unreachably far. I prefer the Mitosis key arrangement with the thumb clusters directly underneath the alphas.

I have one that's collecting dust.

I should probably try with sculpted keycaps instead of the DSA I've right now (i.e. all keys with the same profile).

I got the sculpted caps, and while I'm not sure how much difference they make, I am confident that the lack of labels has made me more inclined to experiment with layout tweaks (I view this as a good thing).

I found the thumb cluster borderline unusable on the Ergodox. The Keyboardio Model 01, which is my daily driver now, has a somewhat similar layout but excellent positioning on the thumb cluster and modifier button.

I don’t have any trouble with the three bottom thumb keys in the cluster, but the top three aren’t very useful. I’ve remapped them to media or macro shortcuts that I don’t use while typing.

I do find it horrible. I can hit one key comfortably and another one is usable. The rest are just superfluous.

I can easily hit the bottom parts of every row, but I have pretty big hands.

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