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Comment by onion2k | Hacker News Reader

I find articles like this one where 100% of the onus for coping with mental health problems is put on the individual quite annoying. There's nothing in the article about getting help from other people, or how to cope with problems that you can't fix easily. It's kind of a toxic attitude because it makes others believe people with mental health issues just aren't trying hard enough and completely ignores individual circumstances or our ability to help ourselves. It's all very well to tell people with mental health problems that they should sleep better, eat better and get some exercise, but that ignores the fact that mental health problems can physically stop people doing that.

If fixing your mental health was simple then it wouldn't be such a prevalent problem.

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Actually the article right at the beginning asks the reader not to equivocate mental health with mental illness and heath, or rather wholistic well-being, is actually almost entirely the proactive responsibility of the individual. The basic starting point is fitness which applies to mental health conditioning just as it does to physical exercise.

To be fair to your point though the article does say we should shift our thinking on mental health to the same perceptions granted towards physical health. That should mean the mental health evaluation equivalent of a physical every four years. That is absolutely beneficial to everybody because even perfectly healthy people get regular physicals even when they are perfectly healthy.

I'm always wary of anyone leveraging concepts such as "investing in mental wealth" or "focussing on self improvement" in order to pander 5 bullet methodologies. Even more so when the author interjects a plug, both shameless as well as irrelevant, for their own book - Beyond Coffee - in their argument.

The fallacy hidden in the article is that each of us is completely in control over our physical and mental well-being. That your well being isn't an inevitability but a choice. If it's a choice, then this implies that making the right choices is 100% your own responsibility.

Sure, the author does raise a number of fair points about mental healthcare and how some good daily habits affect your own well being.

But then the author completely misses the mark in the conclusion.

No two human lives are the same. Everyone's experience is uniquely different and shaped by an infinite number of events and circumstances past, present and future. Most of which humans don't even get to control directly. The idea of controlling your life and the optimistic view that one is able to mould it towards an ideal stems in Modernistic tradition.

Human minds are doing poorly at self diagnosing, while it's very hard for others to spot the signs of mental health issues. Mental health is also deeply woven into the identity and the personality of individuals. Personal struggles are very much part of being an individual.

Rather then pandering "we should invest in our mental wealth" or even "we should go for a yearly mental health check up", start by sitting down and listening compassionately to those around you first, without offering any practical solutions. If someone lost a loved one, they don't want to hear "maybe you should see a therapist" right off the bat, they are addressing you directly, and they hope you're just willing to listen and acknowledging their pain and not much more.

If someone states they suffer depression, anxiety or PTSD, rather then arguing semantics, the more important questions to ask would be: Am I listening to this person, what are they trying to say and do I understand what they are saying?

Finally, statements that start with "we should..." without backing up their claim, tend to rustle my Jimmies. Who's this "we" anyway? And why am I being dragged into the argument from the outset?

> The fallacy hidden in the article is that each of us is completely in control over our physical and mental well-being. That your well being isn't an inevitability but a choice. If it's a choice, then this implies that making the right choices is 100% your own responsibility.

This is nonsense. The author makes no such argument, you're just projecting it onto him.

"Here are some things you can do to proactively manage your mental health, rather than ignoring it until you have a crisis" is in no way putting 100% of the responsibility on the individual.

I was in an accident many years ago that split my chin and chipped or cracked about a dozen of my teeth, resulting in over $10k of dental work since. But when my dentist advises me to proactively manage my dental health by brushing and flossing daily I don't accuse her of fallaciously implying that I am in complete control of my dental wellbeing.

> I don't accuse her of fallaciously implying that I am in complete control of my dental wellbeing.

Of course not. Your dentist does understand the difference between what you can do and can't do. But context matters. And I'd venture your insurance may hold a different idea about personal responsibility.

The same applies to a self-described silicon valley angel investor, founder, podcaster, author and general start-up helper who writes about "investing in mental wealth".

"Here are some things you can do to proactively manage your mental health, rather than ignoring it until you have a crisis" is in no way putting 100% of the responsibility on the individual.

The problem is that the implication of articles like this one is that if you don't do those things any resulting mental health problems are your own fault. It reinforces the awful reasoning stupid people use like "Oh, you didn't exercise or get good sleep? No wonder you're depressed then! It's your own fault."

So we just shouldn't talk about things that you can do to maintain mental health? Should we also stop talking about preventative dental care?

No.

My original comment intended to discuss mental health by pointing out that the author skipped several fundamental aspects and instead packaged general advice points and tried to sell it as "investing in mental wealth".

My criticism is that the article could have said:

Here's some great basic overall advice that helps you day-to-day. But let's acknowledge that mental health isn't shaped in a vacuum. Environmental and societal issues do have a big impact on the experience of individuals. And unless there's an honest debate about that, many people will keep on struggling.

Equally, it's perfectly valid to talk about preventative dental care. But let's also acknowledge that dental health doesn't exist in a void and that it is very much tied into one's socio-economic place in society, and the affordances that allow one to maintain their dental health in the first place.

Well, there's this statement.

> And these are creating the current environment where we can explore these topics in the abstract collectively — or the acute symptoms we are feeling with loved ones and therapists alike with more positive encouragement from others than ever before, and that helps us zoom in on our individual underlying root causes… and for better or worse, it seems more and more clear that optimal mental health is an individual sport.

Full, hard stop there. Mental health being an individual sport? No. Not by a long shot.

Sure, our own human experience is utterly individual. That is, nobody can feel what you as an individual feel. Barring telepathy, it's not possible to get to the bottom of what someone else is going through. That doesn't mean that your mental health is shaped in a vacuum nor that you are managing your own mental health entirely solo at the end of the day.

Your mental health is tied into your circumstances, your past, your upbringing, the people you met, your current family situation, job, culture, religion, politics, financial situation and so on and so on. How you feel right now is the net result of infinite external and internal factors tying into each other balancing out what goes on in your subconscious.

> Progress is being made, but we have a long way to go in continued open, public dialogue and destigmatization of these common ailments. So when you get a chance to talk about your direct or indirect experience with a mental illness, seize the opportunity to talk about it openly. There’s never been more receptivity to open dialogue than now.

This is true. And those are first steps.But that's not nearly enough. My gripe with the article is that it only lightly brushes the topic of discussing underlying root causes.

For instance, PTSD caused by domestic or child abuse. Sure, you can openly talk about coping with PTSD, have group sessions or do an awareness campaign, but actually creating a socio-economic and judicial environment in which abuse within large communities can be addressed and prevent through strong ties and support networks? It's not exactly like the ball gets pushed forward on this front in a way that a tangible impact has been made, right? If anything, modern life very much puts the focus on the individual with all the unintentional downsides that this brings.

Moreover, this the article simply moves into the opposite direction.

> It goes from a lens of “fixing” to “investing” — in other words, instead of fixing something that is by implication broken, it’s investing in its durability to withstand the wear and tear that comes with modern life. And this begins well before the internal or external life-interrupting event itself (in fact, that is the whole point).

I read this as: there's somehow a way to build "mental credit" that you can expend when you fall on hard times. Yet, the author disregards individual social and economic background, personality traits, and so on.

As I said, sure, to an extent managing stress and sleep are things you do to maintain your own well being... in the present moment. I'd feel down as well if I eat unhealthy, don't get enough sleep and just don't manage the basics in my life properly in general.

But they aren't a silver bullet that solves anxiety and depression caused by losing your job and your house in a pandemic. Neither does a strict and health-focussed training inoculates soldiers against the horrors of the battlefield. The numbers on mental health issues and suicide in veterans serve as a stark reminder here. And they sure aren't a golden hammer that does away with anxiety and depression in teenagers caused by peer pressure or meeting the high expectations by parents and guardians.

> For example, instead of just thinking about fixing an acute financial problem like personal debt, wiser heads are thinking about investing in the optimal outcome with almost every economic decision; financial freedom.

> Instead of fixing a mental illness when it comes across your path, it’s investing in the optimal goal with daily and weekly habits beginning as a teenager; mental freedom. After all, optimal outcomes are planned years and decades in advance. We have this understanding in other investments in our lives… financial, career, relationships, acquired skills, hobbies, etc, and we’re starting to have that with regards to mental health, and I want to further encourage that with the concept of mental wealth.

Okay. This is where the article devolves in pandering. What is this "optimal goal" exactly? What are "optimal outcomes" here? And why is mental health a separate item on the list between "financial career" and "relationships"?

In my opinion, the author does nothing more then dumbing the concept down. Sure, maybe you don't read in his writings that mental health is 100% the responsibility of the individual. But I'd wager that a sizeable part of his audience would be most willing to believe this, for the simple reason that it's far easier to accept simple solutions then deal with the murkiness and complexity of human minds.

Finally, I made the effort to construct a criticism and all you give me is a "you're just projecting"? Please. You'll have to do better then that.

Thanks for fighting the good fight. I have a disability, and it's greatly shaped my experiences. I've arrived at a similar place as you, I think.

So much of mental health advice can be boiled down to "you must adapt to your environment, and if you can't, then your struggles are your fault for failing to adapt." The burden falls on the individual, but not on the systems they live in. The context surrounding a person is rarely acknowledged, and is often treated as an invisible normal.

But, it's not always reasonable to expect someone to adapt. Change takes a hell of a lot of effort! And, as you've pointed out, there are factors that could make it hard or impossible for someone to change. Asking someone to adapt themselves to fit rigid expectations and norms might erase parts of their identity in the process, too. Is that a sacrifice worth making?

That's why I advocate for adapting the environment to the person whenever possible. Providing accommodations, addressing the root causes of stress, and carving out little spaces of safety and comfort. And, if it's not possible, then I think it's important to acknowledge that sometimes things are just shitty. Sometimes your mental health is fucked, and there's not much you could have done to avoid it. That helps stop me from falling into a guilt spiral where I blame myself and get even more anxious/depressed.

But, overall, these days my mental health is so much more community-oriented than it was before. IMO, people deserve to live in better conditions, and shouldn't carry the burden of making that happen entirely on their own.

> The idea of controlling your life and the optimistic view that one is able to mould it towards an ideal stems in Modernistic tradition.

Okay, that's your view. I've taken control in the areas listed, I pay attention to what I'm doing, I'm journaling, noticing what improves my well-being and it's been a great journey that is helping me with my depression tendencies. I am proud to feel that I now have control to go to sleep over Youtube rabbit holes till the sun comes up, etc. etc. I am moulding myself and it's largely thanks to helpful material that doesn't just say you are good as you are, keep being a slob who never exercises, procrastinates eternally, etc. Keeping my wakeup time constant and going running first thing in the morning has helped me a ton. The exercise and the regular wake up makes me sleepy in the evening, I don't need coffee in the morning etc. Things do work.

> Human minds are doing poorly at self diagnosing, while it's very hard for others to spot the signs of mental health issues. Mental health is also deeply woven into the identity and the personality of individuals. Personal struggles are very much part of being an individual.

I don't want my struggles with my sleep schedule to be part of being an individual. Nor do I want my gaming addiction to define myself. Nor my anxieties.

You don't realize that this attitude of "anything goes", "you are okay", "no lifestyle can be ever better than any other" can give people the idea that there is nothing for them to do. That things will necessarily stay the same until some big social revolution comes sometime in a few... decades?

People can take action here and now however small. The feeling of a bit of control and agency can do wonders and can snowball into great things.

The point is that statements like "you are not okay" can be misconstrued depending on the mentality of the subject.

The simplistic version of this is telling a depressed person they should "lighten up." But such a person may not have the resources to just change their mood on a whim, and when they also realize this and internalize it, they may become defensive. If they are unable to follow this "simple advice" to just become "okay" again in the context of society at large, their reaction could only reinforce those self-destructive thoughts. Because I am unable to just do these simple things, then what is my value in life, and so on.

There can be a meta to this mentality. A lot of such people could be well aware they are not okay, and still not have any intention to get better, for a variety of reasons. The assumption is that every person wants to act for their own benefit. There are some people who only want to act for their own detriment. Someone defensive enough could just twist the words of "you could do better," which are completely well-intended, into meaning "but I'm failing to, and that is my fault, and that means I am not good enough for you." They can just believe the helper thinks less of them because they just can't do what they say, and ignore anything they say to the contrary, to make a point. And that is what is defined as "success" for them - proving that they are not good enough to the people that want them to improve, through their own actions. So with that mindset it is an endless negative feedback loop that will frustrate everyone trying to genuinely help the person, until they all give up or nothing ever improves and then said person is left alone with their own thoughts. And then anything could happen.

But that is not to say that it's the same with anyone who is genuinely willing to listen and take advice to heart. You can choose to say "yes, and here are the steps I'll take to get to 'okay'". It's just that not all people are open to advice, and sometimes the only way to make those people listen is to pay other people to force their own worldviews on them (therapists), "for their own good," like a parent would to a naive child who refuses to listen.

And in the end, some people still cannot be changed.

You touch on a very important point here.

Someone suffering depression, anxiety or any mental health issue rarely follows rational logic in their thinking about themselves or the world. That's what makes it so hard on their support network. It's not something you solve by readily giving particular advice.

Therapists usually don't force their views on their patients either. On the contrary. My therapist explained to me that they simply listen and act as a mirror who reflects without judging on what's being said in a session. They act like a guide you're free to follow. A good therapist is able to establish a bond of trust.

Even so, therapy isn't a magic bullet either. Plenty of patients drop out after a few sessions because they fail to connect with their therapist. This isn't a bad thing in itself: it's better to find someone with whom you do connect. Paradoxically, therapy failing is just as often validating that confirmation bias mental health patients have about therapy.

> It's not something you solve by readily giving particular advice.

For sure. I think of it more as something that gets stored in the back of the mind, so it can be recalled when the person is ready. That may come in 1 year, in 3 years, in 10 years or never.

Making someone want to do stuff is futile. Just like it is futile to make yourself want stuff. It has to come from the inside (and what's "inside" gets there over a long time from the outside). And for every such blog post there may be someone out there who goes: I've been hearing this stuff for so long now, you know what, I'm gonna actually try it and will wake up at a regular time for the next 7 days and will do a short morning exercise. Now how and why someone will get in this receptive phase is a mystery. But it happens and when it does, it's good to have good advice material out there, because people may google for this kind of stuff. You decide you want to fix some of your issues, and by the "grace of god" you feel like you can take a step towards this for some reason so you google tips for your situation and then you may actually do it.

Now, will everyone do it reliably just because they read a blog post? Of course not. But it's better than just leaving it all to only pills and doctors (note: of course take your meds) and not telling people anything about what they could do right now based on evidence. The body is a machine that reacts to what you put into it and how you treat it. It's not a mystery and just hearing this or knowing this CAN (in some cases, not all) help people gain a bit of control and see that even if they cannot control much, they can move their body parts and can at least a little bit move in the direction that they want to go towards. Little by little.

It's very hard to give advice in general. That's why the wise teachers used to mentor mentees one on one, there's little wisdom that applies in all circumstances. Advice expresses a direction, and if you are already too far in the other way, you need to be pointed backwards.

If you think all it takes is willpower and you force and force till you break down and conclude that you're just worthless, then you're doing it wrong. There is a sense in which self-improvement as a concept is bullshit, in the sense that Alan Watts expresses here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlNVQ-_y4-0

Ultimately nothing is "deeply broken" in some metaphysical sense in this universe. When we say something is "bad" it just a shorthand to mean we don't want it to be like that. It isn't bad deep down in the fabric of the physical universe. The universe is very aloof and unresponsive and ignorant of what we want or not. It's not trying to spite you when you fail, it just doesn't know what the hell we want from it. When my shoes get dirty, it's not because the world has decided to spite me and make me angry. Reality has no concept of "dirt", it doesn't know that I didn't intentionally scoop up the dirt with my shoes while walking. It's the same mechanism that we sometimes use to intentionally get sticky materials onto a surface. The way to communicate what you want from reality is through action, because that's the language that reality speaks.

The whole self-improvement business has to be done in an intricate balance between taking it playfully and taking it seriously. This is really hard to express properly in a comment. Ultimately you will always have something else to desire, something else to work towards, nothing will be ultimately and finally satisfactory unless you also work on your mindset.

But there are better and worse states of being in some sense. Having anxiety, depression, insomnia, brain fog, addiction, obesity etc. is in some very real sense worse than being fit and in a good mood by default. With the caveats above.

Making people want something is almost impossible. Nobody could ever make me exercise a few years ago. It was just not part of my identity. I thought the gym was for just for loud tough gym bros on steroids looking to get more one night stands. Blog posts and articles like this slowly accumulate in the back of one's mind. And when shit gets really rough and you by yourself come to the realization that you will now do something. Not because you have to or it's your duty or because anything, but you just know that you will now do something because you know things are not going well. Then if you stored these tips up, you may say, you know what, I'm going to actually try that thing I've read about so much in the context of mental health and depression. You will have something to reach for.

Sure there can be other underlying causes for why your life is derailed. But first and foremost you need to fix yourself as a biological homo sapiens to a certain level so that you can engage in the complex task of untangling why you slid off the road. (Beyond a certain point you need a therapist clearly, but only beyond a certain point). Once you have the mental clarity and energy and a baseline okayish mood, you can think of what lead to all this. Maybe you're giving 200% at work, trying to satisfy everyone, while others are actually taking credit for your work who work way less intensely. Maybe you're pushing hard at work to become a martyr and aren't actually using your energy in an efficient manner and others are more ahead because they are working more efficiently not harder. Maybe you seek validation in your professional life because your intimate relationships are failing. Why are they failing, why do you have no friends, are there perhaps practical issues involved, do you commute too long, could you move closer to places where socializing would be easier etc etc. But you cannot begin to tackle these questions is you're in the loop of rough sleep, tons of caffeine, 200% hard work for someone else, stuffing yourself with ice cream and chocolate at home alone, then binge watching stupid youtube videos while downing beer after beer, staying up late, and repeating the cycle.

Don't question it with 23 additional meta levels of buts and ifs and counterintuitive speculations that it will then mean that I am X, Y, Z. Or that it will mean that I should have already done it. Or that I have to admit something or judge myself or I won't be able to keep it up, that I tried so many things already or whatever. Too much thinking. Just do it, shoes on, no thinking, go for a walk/jog. Care for your biological animal side. No questions, you don't need to rationalize it, you don't have to have a great scientific explanation. There can always be questions and doubts. But fixing basic lifestyle will be beneficial. There's no way you're going to end up worse by fixing these. I found it to be very beneficial to read Zen texts and koans and listen to Alan Watts to stop the destructive thought loops and realize their absurdity.

But surely, sometimes all it takes is not conceptual intellectual advice, just a hug, a gentle look, a soothing voice etc. But an article cannot provide this by its nature, so it will be about practical, conceptual things.

> When we say something is "bad" it just a shorthand to mean we don't want it to be like that. It isn't bad deep down in the fabric of the physical universe. The universe is very aloof and unresponsive and ignorant of what we want or not. It's not trying to spite you when you fail, it just doesn't know what the hell we want from it.

This is a good way to view it, thanks.

I'm just trying to figure out how humans, with personal intentions of constructing things, fit into this framework.

Don't get me wrong here. I hold a similar frame of reference towards my own mental state and my own thinking.

But at the same time, it's important to recognize that there's far to the story then this. Mental health is just as much rooted and so many other factors not in the least social and economic circumstances.

This just half the story. The other half is actually the difficult part of addressing root causes. Such as growing up in a dysfunctional or abusive family situation. Or having a disposition towards addiction. Or being the butt of systemic discrimination i.e gender, physical appearance, disabilities, cultural background, skin colour, income level,...

Sure, you could tell someone "the cause of your fatigue and latent depression is your 4 hour daily commute." but that's not something you can readily change if that individual doesn't have the affordances - degree, income, dependents,... - that allows them to either get a job closer to home or move closer to their job.

Neither does it do to tell someone "Your lack of self-confidence and anxiety is a matter of stress management and lack of sleep" if they are under tremendous peer pressure compelling them to conform to particular culture or mentality at school, among friends, at work or at home which is at odds with their personality and who they are.

The entire picture matters.

My gripe with the article isn't that it dispenses advice in line with what you're saying - advice I wholeheartedly agree with in it's own right - my gripe is that the article simply doesn't even begin to address the complex reality that underpins mental health issues. Instead it deprecates entire fields of study because either "they don't know what they're talking about" and "it's been in stasis for decades now without any new insights" and then substitutes that by launching new concepts called "mental wealth" making bold claims about "investing" and "durability" rather then "fixing".

Putting your shoes on, no thinking, start walking. I can get behind that. It helps to clear the air and get in the present moment. And I'm sure a part of the audience will take that advice and apply it tot heir own betterment. But it shouldn't detract from the real hard work up ahead.

I understand where you're coming from. I have similar thoughts when people try to blame individual choices for environmental issues, and put little pictograms and cute comics that teach you to always make sure not to leave taps running and other tiny tips that pale in relation to what effects industrial water use has. Putting the focus on the individual can result in forgetting another much bigger contributor.

So I see that not just this article, but articles like this in general floating around half-assedly in public consciousness can create an atmosphere where the attitude is that everyone who is down there got there by their lack of will, by their corrupt soul, and deserve it etc. which seems to be a common framing in the US. I don't live in the US and I myself are pretty far from that framing and may be too blind to its bad effects. So by all means, fighting for political change and for creating a social net that catches people and bounces them back up is very important.

But certainly in another sense, for a particular person it's a bad strategy to wait for others to pull them out of the mud. It may never happen. There are plenty of people who remain in that type of cycle, get all types of disease, die early etc. There won't be any dramatic music or moral lesson in the end, they just die with perhaps few people caring about even that fact. I like the quote "Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can." It's also similar to the Christian idea of Christ embracing the sinful and loves them in their humanity as they are right now, not only in some idealized version of them. Or the 12 step program for addicts, etc. If you take note of where you are, you can make a deliberate small move to where you want to be, instead of doing a random walk. Of course this only benefits you in some sense, but after a while it can expand and snowball to improvements for your family etc.

The top-down solution and the bottom-up solution can and should coexist.

Of course. And that's a very valid want.

You're at this point because you came to an understanding about yourself and that you don't have to let those issues define who you are. At the same time, who you are today is very much someone who faces this challenge, and this is intrinsically a part of your identity. This is neither good or bad. There's no judgement or value attribution here.

The observation here is that you wouldn't be who you are today if your life took a different road, either by your own choice or by circumstance.

My point isn't that life is pre-destined or pre-determined. Each moment is an opportunity to do something that pushes your life in one way or another. But the opportunities and the choices life hands you? Those aren't infinite and neither are you in complete control over what will cross your road.

Sleep, eating, stress management, exercise,... those are all good habits that will help open doors to other sets of opportunities and choices which you wouldn't have if you didn't mind them at all.

But in my view, the author overstates their importance to the point where he simply ends up disregarding many other factors that determine one's mental well being which often have a larger impact.

I can agree with that. I think it all depends on the person and only someone who deeply knows them can give them the right advice. And that CAN in some cases be a harsh one, if all their life they were coddled, it can be good to hear a stern voice that tells them that they are shit right now, a disgrace of their species, but they have the power to change etc. This is indeed the strategy of some gurus or even clinicians (perhaps with different words). In other cases you just listen, you just nourish, just hug and radiate love and they can, over the years, perhaps open up as a flower and work their way through their issues. If done in the wrong way around, the person may just get crushed under the weight of it all, while in the other case they may grow comfortable in all the coddling and now won't even want to fix things, because "having issues" is what gets them all the hugs and kisses.

Some respond more to rational reasoning, some to emotional ones.

There is no general recipe.

Nobody is contesting that uniquenesses apply to everyone. People should never self diagnose mental or physical ailments, but that also is not an excuse to ignore deliberate decisions to advance personal health.

> If someone lost a loved one, they don't want to hear "maybe you should see a therapist" right off the bat, they are addressing you directly, and they hope you're just willing to listen and acknowledging their pain and not much more.

While you directly address listening I think, more broadly, you mean to suggest active empathy. I fully agree and it’s a skill many people inadequately develop or practice.

I think you're being a bit harsh toward the article here. I think it's well supported that just like physical health (e.g. being overweight), maybe even more so, it's near impossible to help someone with mental health issues that doesn't want to be helped. That's not to say that others can't affect you or that you don't have a responsibility to care about and protect the mental health of those you interact with. But it needs to start and end with each person themselves. Yes, there are network effects, but each person needs to acknowledge the problem themselves before they can become a part of the solution, both toward themselves and others - and this article helps people do that by highlighting the issue.

Imagine if we put the blame on wild animals for their behavioural adaptations after we destroyed their natural environments.

Imagine if we simply observed obesity as "what happens to x% of the human population after y years of exposure to this environment".

Imagine if we observed the growing disconnect between intelligence and critical thinking ability as a function of changes in the information ecology.

> If fixing your mental health was simple

But the article isn't about fixing your mental health, it's about investing in it. Your comment is like getting angry that a blog post that goes "take care of yourself, eat fruit every day!" is "putting 100% of the onus for dealing with obesity on the individual".

Your comment is just you being a word nazi. The words 'investing' and 'fixing' are similar enough for it to not be an issue. Are you trying to impose your definitions of these words on others?

Except the nuances between 'investing' and 'fixing' are a core part of the article's argument.

Hahaha thank you! My comment looks kinda silly now. I guess i was having a bad day. Thanks for your kind response.

I’ve seen firsthand how blaming outside circumstances for mental health can be damaging. Both for myself and others. It’s very tempting to blame lack of happiness on your job, where you live, your partner, or an upstairs neighbor who rearranges their entire apartment at 2am. In most cases (not all) these were misattributed.

Also I think your attitude is unnecessarily defeatist. So what are you suggesting instead, that rather than attempting to build healthy habits, depressed people should give up?

Spot on: telling people to "sleep better" is good advice - in isolation.

Telling people to do that when they are struggling with big social problems (unemployment, poor access to education, discrimination...) or already existing mental issues is very harsh.

Really? I'd think if you're poor and uneducated, and you have bad sleep habits, you could benefit from the advice to sleep better a lot more (relatively) than someone better off.

Just like reminding a stage IV cancer patient to exercise more, it might be well intentioned yet patronizing and quite offensive.

A lot of people with two jobs and a rent to pay have no time to sleep/exercise/meditate/read/whatever.

A lot of people with mental issues have no mental energy to sleep/exercise/meditate/read/whatever.

Sure, that's a devil's circle/negative feedback loop. But, especially for those lacking the mental energy to initiate this stuff, wouldn't it be good to have some sort of boot camp for healthy living/exercise/meditation, where a man in a hat shouts at you to make you do pushups for 2 weeks and you're forced to not eat the shit you've been shovelling into your maw?

This entreprenurial opportunity could only help the more well-off with mental issues, of course.

On a broader scale, whenever I read comments like yours, I wonder what the point is. What do you suggest people in those situations do? What's your alternative advice as to how they might improve their lives? Because all I hear, in general, is 'well, this is good advice, except it'll be hard for some people to follow it because x'. I never hear the next part where people explain what those in those situations should do before following the above advice.

Or are we just taking it for granted that there will be people who will just live in misery until the day the revolution comes?

As a mindset, it just doesn't seem complete.

Both can be true at the same time. This is totally analogous to the extremely flammable topic of whether telling your daughter not to go to dark alleys at night in skimpy clothing reinforces the victim blaming narrative or is just rational advice for the harshness of real life. Or "don't teach web designers how to write standards compliant HTML, because then next-gen browsers will be less lenient and then other people's websites will be broken".

The thing is, there are testimonies of tons of people online who fixed so much about their life, based on tips like this. I'm very much against this attitude of "let's keep good advice secret, so we don't look too judgmental". This is what leads to things like "health at every size" and "fat acceptance". That you can no longer spread advice on how you can massively improve your well-being and life expectancy by losing weight, because this is somehow too judgmental towards people with conditions that make weight loss unusually hard.

Second order effects are important, sure, and there can be counterintuitive consequences and other weird smart stuff. But first and foremost, there are tons of stuff that people can do right now to improve their lives. I am really greatful for the existence of articles like this, because this stuff helped me and if it was for you, we'd only have articles that make us all resentful, bitter and give up trying.

And OF COURSE the system needs to change, especially in the US. How they treat mental illness by policing, the whole consumerist propaganda, the stress inducing, hyperoptimized apps, the hyperpalatable foods that are engineered to trick us to eat more and get fat etc. etc. they all need to be addressed. We cannot expect people on a massive scale to suddenly be able to counteract these immense forces raining down on them all day every day from all channels, billboards, ads etc. guiding them towards a harmful life.

In summary

1) When giving advice to an individual it's about how to thrive in a cold hard world that doesn't care a bit about whether they are happy or suffer or live or die. What you can do, you should because ultimately you have different paths forward and working step by step, little by little, while not beating up yourself in the process can be immensely helpful. Not because you will get praise or because you obeyed the commands of the white coats, but because you will genuinely be better for your own sake.

2) When talking to people who have their shit together, advocate for compassion towards those who are in a messy situation. But really helping is hard. Teaching to fish vs giving fish etc. Just because someone has a messed up life with mental health issues doesn't make them into angels, that would be some variant of "noble savage". It can be difficult to help, you may be used, you may be tricked, and progress is not guaranteed.

Think of it as an analogue of the Liskov Substitution Principle. Prepare the person to be strong in a harsh environment and simultaneously work on making the environment less harsh so that less strong people can also thrive.

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