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Comment by dathanb82 | Hacker News Reader

When asking for help solving a problem, I start writing a question to ask someone, and then as I start explaining what I've tried (to try to be respectful of their time and them not have to repeat anything I've done) more and more things to try occur to me. By the time I've tried all the things that occur to me while describing the problem, I've solved the problem. That's the way it works out more often than not.

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Exactly this. What is really weird, though, is that I have occasionally tried to promote this approach to people that ask my help, simply by asking them to write the request to me instead of calling. Also, getting the help request in written helps me to think the case and open issues in my own pace uninterrupted by discussion.

The weird part? I have a strong feeling that more and more often (luckily not too often yet) my request seems to be considered outright hostile and it causes significant irritation. I wonder if anyone else has noted the same or am I just getting old and grumpy...

hab ich auch weilse sonst zu viel abgeben teilen ornen und wiedergutmachen müsseb denke ich. linke menschen muss man aufs Brot haben!

Yep.

I’ve asked people to not give me dimensions for a work request over the phone because it leads to potential for transcription errors and mis-hearing...

If you type it out and send it to me, or write it down and send a photo / scan, and it’s wrong... that’s your fault.

And they seem genuinely put out by me not wanting to be responsible for a mistake.

If them being put out causes you trouble, may be best to take them, then send the follow up email requiring the confirmation.

Humans need handling.

One thing I've learned is that many coworkers really struggle with writing. They are amazing talkers - they work in sales most of the time. But they rarely write anything more than bullet points in a powerpoint deck.

It's a bit sad, but understand that people have different backgrounds and education. Perhaps their schooling, back in the 1960's / 70's, did not prioritize writing skills? It's just really odd to me because every single job I've ever applied for always said "must be able to excel in written communication", so why should the standard for my colleagues be different?

This raises an interesting point.

Maybe excels at written communication is how everyone else is doing it (bullet points, spelling and grammar mistakes) and we are the aberration.

I usually to write in short sentences instead of long paragraphs.

I find that it improves clarity. It also seems the readers respond well to that.

With that in mind, why are bullet points so bad ? they seem like a simple technique to simplify writing.

I've written a bullet point message to a client once. He was pieved because it sounded like I was enumerating his failures instead of genuinely asking questions. I find that bullet points are only good if you enumerate what you've done, or something neutral. But nothing in regards to what somebody else needs. It's really aggressive.

I've found that bullet points come off as really aggressive in communication.

That sounds like a tricky message to deliver:

1. It could easily come across as "my time is more important than yours". 2. Depending on what they are asking for and how urgently they are treating it, they might not want a lesson in solving their own problems. They just want help fixing the problem. 3. A lot of people are self-centred. Of course their problem should be your top priority and you should drop what you're doing! /s

...So yeah, I'd be surprised if it didn't get a bad reaction sometimes. Perhaps seek to promote this approach when their problem is resolved. I would imagine they would be more receptive then.

This happens all the time. This might sound cynical but it's impossible to change the attitude of some people. Any tips to avoid them without being quoted as "not a team player".

> 1. It could easily come across as "my time is more important than yours".

Well yes, if someone comes to me to ask for help, that means they weren't able to solve it by themselves, but expect me to have the skills, knowledge or experience to help them solve it. So my time working on this problem is obviously more valuable than theirs, because I'm expected to fix something they weren't able to.

So I think it's fair to ask them invest the time to provide a proper description of the problem, before I invest time to help them.

Maybe in some cases it is helpful (for both parties) if it is written down. However, in my experience, a conversation can often be very helpful as well - you can ask clarifying questions etc. It becomes more of a brainstorming together. Has helped me many times (on both sides of the conversation).

I find the instant messaging is even better(for informational conversations).

It gives you time to think, can decrease miscommunication and the psychological element of conversation(giving more clean space for the informational element) and increase the depth and details of a conversation.

Completely the opposite for me. What would be a couple of minutes of conversation is stretched out to an hour or more. And no point starting something different while waiting for the next message.

What I do then is record that in my journal. Usually I never look at it again. But sometimes it's incredibly useful to be able to go back and revisit my thought process, especially in the face of a bug.

There's a name for that: rubber-duck debugging :)

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