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Comment by borkt | Hacker News Reader

It slightly bothers me that people regularly claim the marijuana of the 1970's was so much weaker than today, for example the statement that the cannabis of the 70s was no stronger than todays hemp. In my neck of the woods there has always been stuff that is basically as good as it is today. Keep in mind hash has existed at least 1000 years, and cannabis has been cultivated for millenia. Sure, there was copious amounts of low quality mexican weed in the 1970s, but there were people growing the good stuff as well, albeit with lower yields and much longer flowering times. I've grown out some afghani seeds collected in the early 80s from the soviet army and despite the extremely long flowering time it is unbelievably potent and aromatic. Its a much more skunky, acrid aroma than the designer fruity strains of today, but the THC is there.

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Popular strains from even 8 years ago like Master Kush are no longer sellable because their max potency is 20-21%. Afghani falls in the same category of 16-20% THC.

Brick weed tests closer to 4-7% THC.

Many retailers I sell to won’t accept any indoor under 20% and the flower testing >26% sells out fast. We are currently working to retire any sub-25% strain because today’s consumer buys on potency. Most recently I sold out of a 31% THC potency GG4.

Phinest Cannabis is releasing a strain called ‘Fatso’ that they’ve had test at 39% total THC. I don’t think we’re at the end of the line yet.

Man I have a maximum percentage I will buy at because I get fucking paranoid when I get too damn much THC in my system, hopefully this trend will end before it becomes impossible for me to buy weed that I can actually smoke.

Not that I’m currently in a legal state anyway but...

The trend was the result of prohibition, and is akin to the phenomenon of high potency moonshine being produced in the alcohol prohibition era. Sellers and movers had an incentive to maximize their profit to risk ratio. One way was to increase perceived potency. Just look at K2/spice for another result of this dynamic. That's a moonshine situation.

Now there is plenty of low THC weed out there. The dispensaries just don't offer it for some reason. You can find it in head shops and online. These are very good strains, mind you, bred with intention by skilled growers.

If cannabis was legal on a federal level, we'd likely see more low-mid THC strains emerge in markets. Right now there's a weird legal gap between what headshops can sell and what dispensaries are interested in selling, so the ~1-5% THC weed is pretty niche.

There's quite a lot of energy going into that those alternative strains right now. People are cultivating lots of other cannabinoids, CBG, CBN, CBT, CBC... and many more. They're making some good ones too!

I don’t use cannabis much as an adult. But when I do, I really miss the ability to sit and smoke a big joint almost like I might smoke a cigar. When I was a teen in 90s mostly brick was available cause Texas and I’d smoke a quarter oz in a evening. Granted I have no tolerance these days.

It’s just not possible at these THC levels I see when I visit retail in legal places. I can smoke a gram or two in a evening if I’m really trying.

That seems like a strange thing to pine for. Why wish for additional lung damage if you can get the same effect off one or two puffs and move on with your life?

Believe it or not some people enjoy the act of smoking even though it's not the most efficient method to get high. In general, something does not need to be safest or most rational in order to be satisfying.

This is correct. For something I do maybe once a year, I’m willing to take the risk. I do the same thing with cigars about once a year. I actually enjoy act of smoking and the flavors. So a one hitter 40% THC strain eliminates that enjoyment.

FWIW I never smoked cigarettes for similar reason, taste like crap and stinks too IMO. Even when I smoke cigars I regret it for 24-48 hours cause of smell and taste left in my mouth/tongue feel. MJ doesn’t do that per se, but I do have to change clothes and basically take a shower before sleeping. I really don’t like smell of smoke. It’s a weird thing I know.

I would rather smoke several low-thc spliffs over the course of an evening than the equivalent amount in two hits. Sure, the lung damage isn't ideal, but it beats just falling asleep and being useless for 4 hours.

Really bad idea to mix tobacco with your cannabis.

Tobacco is a dangerous addictive drug that ruins your health and shortens your life.

I know and I've tried to quit many times with varying degrees of success (one time for almost a year!) For now the tiny amount of tobacco I mix into spliffs is my concession. It's certainly way better than the pack a day I used to go through in my early 20s.

Well, smoking joints ftw.

It's a social act, one has to roll it, pass it, i've even met people who had some superstitions and strong beliefs about the correct way of consuming a joint (weed in general) :P

If you wish to lower lung damage, you eat it.

Different high. The liver processes the THC first when you eat it. When you smoke it, your brain gets actual THC.

Doubtful. As evidence, I present the "how much hops can I cram into my IPA" movement of the craft beer movement.

Hops are a flavouring ingredient, not a psychoactive ingredient.

And despite a decades-long love affair with strong IPAs, most craft beer areas have been big into low alcohol kettle sours, etc for the last 5 years or so. IPAs haven't gone away, just moved to the sidelines

Is this true? The "hype" continues to be NE-IPAs - which contain as many hops as anything around, and (admittedly, I know less about this world) big giant BA stouts.

Maybe more kettle sours are being brewed, but sold?

It's very much local market dependent. In my locale, mid-90s to mid-00's was all about getting people to try craft beer with anything they could - a lot of English styles. Then NW IPAs dominated from about 2007 to 2010, then one-hop IPAs were big, then kettle sours (generally dry hopped or fruited) were big for a few years, you are right that NEIPAs and heavily lactose'd milkshake IPAs are now sharing the limelight. But the NWIPAs and kettle sours and BA Stouts (and BA sours and belgian golden strongs and...) are all still there, still selling well.

Hops do have some interesting properties. You can make a tea to help you sleep. Also used as a antipsycothic before we got pills.

Close relative to Marijuana as I understand.

Well, if I wander into the beer shop a few blocks away, there’s a shelf unit full of IPAs which I avoid because of exactly that phenomenon, but it’s part of a row of shelf units with craft beers of all kinds - there’s sections for stouts, ciders, ambers, and so on. All kinds of wonderful ways to get a little drunk or very very drunk, depending on the ABV of whatever you select; all of them from small breweries.

That reminds me, I really need to send some email to Untitled Art begging them to please do another run of the fabulous “rainbow sherbet” beer I only got ever one can of...

For every strain thats above 20% there are 10 more that are above 15%.

Indeed, I bought some Amplified Farms Super Sour Diesel at Green Cross SF a couple of months ago; this is a sativa with 39.2% THC. When I checked their website again recently they had the same strain with a bit less potency, but I recall it was still 35-36%.

I have bought lower potency flowers when they were on sale at a good price, but I prefer the stronger stuff since I can use that much less of it.

BTW, isn't it interesting that we can talk about this in public now? It sure is different from decades in the past where we had to use code words on phone calls.

The code word in my circles was "programmer's fuel"!

My favorite code word is time.

"Do you have time?"

--"Not now, but I'll have time later."

Amplified grows some great flower. Good choice.

This makes me wonder -- does the "race to the top" of THC potency actually result in a worse product overall?

Think about the "megapixel craze" of the mid-2000's digital camera market.

It was clear to any well-informed enthusiast that megapixels are not even in the top 5 most important aspects of a good camera.

I had a neighbour who was a pro photographer shooting on an 8-megapixel Nikon professional-grade DSLR--which still had far, far better quality than any consumer-level 20-megapixel shooter.

I guess my point is, if the industry is only focused on this one number, perhaps it's ignoring the possibility that a strain with "only" 15% THC, if the chemistry is balanced in a certain way, will ultimately be more effective than some 31% monster-bud?

The answer is it depends. Everyone tries to push strains as far as they can go meaning pumping as much nutrients and light as possible to get maximum THC. The sad part is a lot of great strains that smoke well get culled. I have a forbidden lemon glue with an amazing terpene profile...but it's low potency so we don't sell it anymore.

It's not fair to lay the blame on the potency wars. The flower you smoked in the 00s was selected based on its yield per acre, its strength against the elements, and whether the strain would finish growing before the rain comes.

If you want to enjoy the flavor your best bet is using concentrates. Tthe concentrate guys are purely focused on flavor. They cultivate strains specifically for their terpene profile and are focused on maintaining that profile for the consumer.

I definitely prefer more balanced strains, Chocolope being one of my all time favorites.

Too much THC relative to other compounds ruins the experience for me.

When I feel the urge to reach that far, I'd rather use LSD or Shrooms.

"because today’s consumer buys on potency."

Why is that? Is it cheaper? Would you be able to supply less potent product cheaper (maybe shorter growing times or less work or other reason)?

I know nothing about this field but I find some of the comments here fascinating.

I can only speak to this from the consumer perspective, so I can't actually say why any of these trends are true, but...

1. Any correlation between price and potency is very weak; any price point will have a wide range of potency within it.

2. Products rotate constantly, so consumers are facing a new set of choices with every purchase.

3. Modern packaging removes the tactile element from selecting your flowers. some places still keep sample cups so you can smell the strain, but most people are evaluating based on the information on the label now. If you don't have a deep knowledge of weed strains, the potency is the easiest thing to compare.

I don't buy tea based on label, have to at least see its texture and sniff it. The nice thing about tea is that there are classical varieties and blends that one can purchase and they taste more or less the same every time. It would be great if some cannabis businesses would adopt the specialty tea store business model.

Actually, I think tea is a perfect comparison. How many consumers are actually making educated choices about the specific tea varietal they buy, and how many are just picking "black, green, white, or oolong."

Knowing the difference between two weed varieties is more like being able to tell the difference between two Assam's, except you have to evaluate that difference while stoned.

Because big number = better.

Or at least that’s what those going to dispensaries think.

You see a strain with 30% THC and you’re like holy shit, so then the 17% THC strain next to it looks like trash. And people figure it’s more bang for you buck cause you’ll have to use less.

Though, from what I’ve seen, this isn’t the way to buy. I think it was judges for the Cannabis Cup or some other major marijuana cup judges that said that pretty much all their favorites are below 20%, one said their favorite of the year was like 15%. This is because the growers and breeders didn’t just focus on pumping out THC, but focused on all aspects of the plant, such as terpenes which help influence the type of high you feel. Their primary suggestion was to let your nose lead you, as the smellier the weed, the more terpenes.

Some people drink craft ipas, but that's not what sells the most. Someday we'll have the bud light of weed, and we'll have people saying it smokes like shit.

Personally I'd rather just use extracts.

We have it now, just not at most dispensaries. There's tons of well grown low THC hemp flowers out there with all kinds of blends of various different cannabinoids and terpenes. There's a stigma from some people about this stuff being "o'douls weed". But really these are really good strains. People can be fools. That's one of our basic modes of being I guess. These strains don't have the same effects as THC, but they definitely have a variety of interesting, palpable, soothing effects.

While raw cannabis has some % of THC and CDB (among other compounds) it is the processed stuff like hashish or oils that really hold the crown for potency. This stuff has been around for a long time, much longer than the westernized commercial strains.

I like a stronger strain because I can use less of it. My PAX 3 vaporizer has two different covers for the oven, one that works with .15-.2 grams of flower, the other with .3 grams or more.

With a more potent product, I can use the first cover and get the same effect with much less vegetable material.

I do this because its cheaper. Taxes are another 30% in CA and being a medical patient is virtually meaningless anymore. I buy on bang for the buck alone.

It’s a well debunked meme, see this thread https://twitter.com/danalarsen/status/1167941723969900544

This makes a compelling argument that government agencies aren't telling the truth about the degree of increased cannabis potency. It in no way debunks that there was an increase in cannabis potency.

Even in just the last 20 years(when we have much better data) there has been a large increase in potency.

Ha! That’s great.

Reminds of how there’s always that one person in any group who says something like:

“You reckon that’s good? You should try my cousins shit”, or some variant.

Or how every 25 / 30 / 35 / 40 45 / 50 / 55 / 60 year old / dead drug users will say “it’s not like it was back in my day”.

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