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This isn't how I've seen it work out where I work.

Anytime someone expresses they're going to leave, my company bends over backwards (sometimes too much to be honest) to try and make them happy.

I think it all depends on how you phrase things when it comes to the reactions of others.

If you say I'm leaving, I hate this company, etc. etc. of course there is going to be retribution.

But if you say I want new opportunities, I'm looking to grow, I think most folks (at least those I that I would _want_ to work for) wouldn't seek retribution for that. So long as it aligns with company goals and you're right for that opportunity, I think most are happy to let you have the chance to prove yourself.

To be honest, the main reason I've started looking to leave my current job is I've expressed multiple times that I'd like a new challenge, or to help on XYZ and they've straight up ignored me. I don't think it's malicious on their part, I just think my managers are too focused on their own careers to help me with mine (it doesn't help that I'd be dipping into their territory by moving up). I guess you could say I've hit a ceiling, and it can probably only be solved by moving on to another company.

The frustrating part will be when I do get an offer and tell them I'm leaving, they're going to suddenly want to do all the things I've been asking for to get me to stay.

I hear the advice that "never accept a counter offer", but this is specifically how I got all my raises in a company I stayed in for more than 4 years. I still do occasional freelance to them despite moving on.

I went to other companies to find out what my market value was and this helped me convince my company that I deserve a raise. They weren't looking to replace me or anything and we still have a good relationship with no hard feelings.

Yeah, that's the same way I've gone about getting raises. And like you, I don't have a bad relationship with the company I'm at.

Even if I do end up leaving, I think they'd be happy to work with me again in the future.

I think folks assume people will be upset about these sorts of things, but any company worth it's salt realizes that you're both there to make money. It's a business relationship.

The problem is - how do you determine if a company is worth its salt?

It's easy to say these generic things but how do you determine such things? I've found unicorns gushing with hundreds of millions of dollars in liquid cash will fire employees at the slightest bit of dissatisfaction with the job. Somehow they got lots of $$$ - yet they will fire as soon as someone shows distaste with what they have to do daily because it isn't growing them.

Beyond that: If an employer isn't going to do things you want until you show that you're leaving with an offer in hand - are they really a company worth their salt? Are they really going to keep up a good act or do you need to get a counter offer every time they don't do things you'd like?

I think getting an offer from somewhere else works out well for both sides. It gives a clear indication on how much you are worth on the market without having to guess from both sides.

From employees's pov - if a company would increase my salary and I didn't have actual info what others were willing to offer I would still be second-guessing - would I be better off somewhere else, how do I know if what they are offering is fair?

If I ask for a specific raise without having any other offers how will the employer know that I'm not BSing?

It's very difficult to know the fair price without data from competitors.

I guess what one should do is save enough money so they could last at least 6 months without having to rely on a job. This will open so many doors and remove any desperation during negotiations. Then it won't matter if they start to look for a replacement. And you already have evidence that other companies will be happy to hire you.

Otherwise it's probably gut feeling whether the company is the type to be reasonable about business and not take things personally.

Is there reverse also not possible though? I'm a manager and I see an employee who is thinking of leaving, so I try to figure out why. Do they want a raise? More responsibility or autonomy? And then I try to give it to them so they won't leave. Or is that overly idealistic?

Often this is only temporary, though. They increase your salary, but it comes out of your next raise and you get fewer opportunities because your loyalty is in question, or if they're evil and the employment laws allow it they make you happy temporarily until they find a replacement. If you're company is prepared to do those things for you they should be willing to before you threaten to quit

It's the job of the manager to create an environment where employees can go to the manager to discuss things which are not going well or change of career anytime without the fear of retribution. I'm mentioning this often to make sure everyone knows it. Last month we had a case where someone was unhappy being a Team Lead and we could change their career path to something more interesting with an equal level of contribution.

A good manager might. I know of two managers who offered me jobs on their teams so I wouldn't need to go to another part of the company (same money and all).

Most managers cut you loose because it's easy to replace you.

Not sure who told you this. It's not easy to replace anyone and hasn't been for a while now. An experienced individual leaving a team is always a big hit to the team's productivity. Typically takes 3-6 months to recover from that.

Ok, maybe not easy to do, but easy to justify. Why not get rid of an expensive senior dev and replace them with someone fresh out of school? They typically can work more hours (no kids) and can do 80% of the work for 50% of the pay.

If you want them to stay and would consider it a loss if they left, why wouldn't you give them incentive to stay? Why wouldn't you try and keep the employee?

If a manager indirectly finds out that an employee is looking over the fence and takes that negatively, then I think it's a bigger reflection on the manager than the employee. Either you consider them valuable or you don't.

This. I was put in a situation where I signaled I was looking for a job elsewhere and it came back to bite me.