[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23279837
But beyond that, let's say you knew that a certain bank had a good chance of shutting down its branch offices in the town where you live, for whatever legitimate reason. Would you consider opening an account at that bank? Well, clearly no, because those bank branch offices might not be there for you to use in the future.
Now let's say you were a manager and you knew one of your team members was looking for a new job. Would you feel it to be worthwhile to assign important project tasks to that person if you knew there was a good chance they would be unavailable in the very near future and you'd have to move the tasks to someone else? Are you going to put them up for a promotion or a bonus to reward them, knowing that the effort might (in a sense) be wasted? The knowledge that an employee is considering leaving, no matter how much the manager might wish them well personally, changes the relationship because of the uncertainty about the future availability of their time and accumulated knowledge. It's better either for the employee not to create that uncertainty and/or resolve it as soon as possible.
Most managers cut you loose because it's easy to replace you.
Anytime someone expresses they're going to leave, my company bends over backwards (sometimes too much to be honest) to try and make them happy.
I think it all depends on how you phrase things when it comes to the reactions of others.
If you say I'm leaving, I hate this company, etc. etc. of course there is going to be retribution.
But if you say I want new opportunities, I'm looking to grow, I think most folks (at least those I that I would _want_ to work for) wouldn't seek retribution for that. So long as it aligns with company goals and you're right for that opportunity, I think most are happy to let you have the chance to prove yourself.
To be honest, the main reason I've started looking to leave my current job is I've expressed multiple times that I'd like a new challenge, or to help on XYZ and they've straight up ignored me. I don't think it's malicious on their part, I just think my managers are too focused on their own careers to help me with mine (it doesn't help that I'd be dipping into their territory by moving up). I guess you could say I've hit a ceiling, and it can probably only be solved by moving on to another company.
The frustrating part will be when I do get an offer and tell them I'm leaving, they're going to suddenly want to do all the things I've been asking for to get me to stay.
I went to other companies to find out what my market value was and this helped me convince my company that I deserve a raise. They weren't looking to replace me or anything and we still have a good relationship with no hard feelings.
Even if I do end up leaving, I think they'd be happy to work with me again in the future.
I think folks assume people will be upset about these sorts of things, but any company worth it's salt realizes that you're both there to make money. It's a business relationship.
It's easy to say these generic things but how do you determine such things? I've found unicorns gushing with hundreds of millions of dollars in liquid cash will fire employees at the slightest bit of dissatisfaction with the job. Somehow they got lots of $$$ - yet they will fire as soon as someone shows distaste with what they have to do daily because it isn't growing them.
Beyond that: If an employer isn't going to do things you want until you show that you're leaving with an offer in hand - are they really a company worth their salt? Are they really going to keep up a good act or do you need to get a counter offer every time they don't do things you'd like?
From employees's pov - if a company would increase my salary and I didn't have actual info what others were willing to offer I would still be second-guessing - would I be better off somewhere else, how do I know if what they are offering is fair?
If I ask for a specific raise without having any other offers how will the employer know that I'm not BSing?
It's very difficult to know the fair price without data from competitors.
I guess what one should do is save enough money so they could last at least 6 months without having to rely on a job. This will open so many doors and remove any desperation during negotiations. Then it won't matter if they start to look for a replacement. And you already have evidence that other companies will be happy to hire you.
Otherwise it's probably gut feeling whether the company is the type to be reasonable about business and not take things personally.
If a manager indirectly finds out that an employee is looking over the fence and takes that negatively, then I think it's a bigger reflection on the manager than the employee. Either you consider them valuable or you don't.
1. It signals insecurity about your culture and why anyone should want to work there. (We can't keep people here except under threat.)
2. It's ineffective against your best employees, who will have options and will not fear you.
3. It demotivates everyone and creates a vicious cycle of fear and distrust, which will drive a culture of keeping your head down and hoarding information, which will destroy the efficiency of your remaining workforce.
It signals insecurity about your culture and why anyone should want to work there. (We can't keep people here except under threat.)
It's ineffective against your best employees, who will have options and will not fear you.
I uploaded my resume to a job site. Within a week I was called to meet the HR. They asked me why I was looking for a job and if I was unhappy here. I told them I was happy (obviously, I don't want to lose my job) They told me they won't inform the CEO because it would upset him and it was never brought up again.
I worked for a while and then had to leave. The place was toxic for me.
It really makes sense for small companies to monitor their employees because they can't afford to have people quit willy nilly. So, definitely, I am 100% sure they have monitoring software which detects employee search results.
A sudden TripleByte search result showing up on Google is definitely a red flag that the HR would notice.
Having said this. I would say TripleByte wanting to award badges and making profiles public is definitely a mistake on their part. I doubt they have malicious intent. They just did not think through all the consequences with this move.
Nobody want to lose their job in the middle of the pandemic. Bad move on their part for sure.
If a company can't deal with people quitting when they give the appropriate notice they've got big problems, and a multinational company of almost 80 people should definitely be able to manage
Context: My first two managers were friendly and we openly talked about what we wanted to do next. My 3rd manager was the CTO, who talked a lot about preparing people for their next jobs/career. I assumed I could be open with him.
After a month or two where several people left, he asked me in our 1:1 if I knew of anyone who was thinking about leaving. Assuming that he wanted to know so they could make counter offers or back fill headcount, I told him I was considering it. I was trying to be helpful, and I guess I was, just not in the way I expected.
Two weeks later he either quit or was fired. I was fired three days after him. Apparently he had already advocated for my firing before leaving himself.
You're all adults. You need a day off to go interview, take a day. But if you start taking mysterious sick days or long personal calls on company time, expect disciplinary action.
Until your employer adds 1+1 together and stops letting you take vacation because you're on "unlimited PTO". In the end - who cares what the "official" reason is.
If instead your current employer only had the information that you were searching for a new job, but didn't have any firm offers, then you might find it harder to negotiate (why does a raise make sense if the market doesnt seem to be making you an offer that you consider better than what you've already got -- maybe you're already over paid etc), and might also run afoul of some of the other considerations raised in this thread (managers not wanting to put you in key role on important project if there is perception that you may be gone soon).
I've once had the strange and unexpected experience of resigning from a job without any competing offer lined up (was young & naive, jaded with the company, didn't immediately need the money) and then being offered contract work a few weeks later from the same former employer to do the essentially same kind of work on a new project at contract rates, i.e., more than twice what I was getting paid before, albeit with no security of continuing employment. So arguably there are also other ways to improve your negotiating position without needing a competing offer -- by resigning I gave a clear signal that I genuinely wasn't interested in letting the status quo continue. I don't recommend this as a strategy, it is far better to line up offers for new jobs you'd be comfortable doing well before you are sick of the current job. I wasn't resigning as some kind of considered move in a negotiation, with any expectation that this outcome would occur. But it was an interesting way to discover that in some job markets you may get paid a lot more as a contractor than as a permie employee if you're in a position to accept much more risk of having periods where the work just stops and you need to find a new project/client.
Is that enough evidence?
The company that fired my wife was a small company.
It's also quite odd if the company is small, like they have dedicated people to scan for information like that?
I was a little surprised. I think they were so small (<20 people) that they outsource the security and IT work.
Honestly I still don't understand exactly how they came to this conclusion and let her go like that? Was she given a chance to defend herself? Like you could easily say that you were helping your friend to look for a job or clicked on some link sent by someone else?
It seems really ridiculous to me to scan for this information and then fire someone based on that.
I'm really very liberal about what I do on my work computer, I just couldn't fathom they would fire me over something like that.
I think she admitted it when confronted.
I work for a large company and their policy is that you should not be using it for personal stuff. They use this as an excuse to fire people they want to get rid of.
It doesn't seem a strong reason enough to fire where I am from (European country). In the law there are examples of reasons one could fire over and they all seem a lot worse than that. For example if you are drunk in the workplace, but even then employer must warn you first, so it seems like once it is okay.
Alcoholism is covered here too. The employer must offer to get you help the first time since it is a medical condition (disability).
I don’t view looking as disloyal. If employer N isn’t the best option for an employee, they are welcome and even expected to consider employer N+1.
What I despise though, and personally experienced, is when HR of present employer use external recruitment agencies to spy on you and block your job hunt. And use that information to discriminate against you in various ways.
I would never job search on company's time or issued hardware, and I wouldn't recommend it.
However, once you start seriously looking, it is just a matter of time.
I know several people who always put out their resumes, and are open about it. They say they like to know what they are worth. Typically they have not been seriously looking just keeping in practice if they needed to.
Myself I went to a job fair, and I was surprised to see my boss there recruiting. I had to get out as the tech was primitive and I was worried my skills were atrophying. I was given a 10% raise, which was nice and I used it to get another 10% at the new company.
Personally, if I saw members on my team looking for work, I would want to understand that decision: is it for personal reasons, is it because they felt unable to grow, is it because of salary, or is it because they find the work no longer meaningful?
There are plenty of reasons to move on from a role. Firing someone for wanting something that aligns better with their future is beyond petty imo.