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Comment by fma | Hacker News Reader

I've always found it ironic that in our climate of anti-immigration (including legal immigration) that the person to save our industry of so much American pride, the manned space program, is an African immigrant.

Many people I talk to (I know, anecdote) don't know he moved to the US to pursue the American dream. I fear what what happens to the US when the next Elon Musk stays put, because the American Dream doesn't want them.

Congratulations to Musk, and best wishes to the 2 astronauts that will make history.

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>I've always found it ironic that in our climate of anti-immigration (including legal immigration) that the person to save our industry of so much American pride, the manned space program, is an African immigrant.

Well, on the other hand, the anti-immigration sentiment is not really against privileged, well-educated, white entrepreneur immigrants...

>is an African immigrant.

He came from privilege and wealth from colonial South Africa to Canada. Bit of a stretch to paint his story as an "African immigrant moving to the US to pursue the American Dream."

How is that a stretch? That's literally what he is. Sounds like you're hung up on some other issue.

Well he did technically immigrate to the US from Canada.

Musk emigrated to Canada while Apartheid was still in place in South Africa, while calling him an African immigrant isn’t completely technically incorrect it is quite far from what circumstances most people would imagine that phrasing to mean.

Not sure who "most people" are but the circumstances of all immigrants have only 1 thing in common. Their original citizenship is not the USA. If others have a perceived stereotype, then they should check that at the door.

It really can't get any more black and white than that. The fact of the matter is, in an atmosphere of reduced enrollment by foreign students, we would have less chances of an Elon Musk type person.

Whilst before 2016 it was growing, since 2016 enrollment by international students in universities has been declined. I'm sure you know Musk came to the US for college. Trump administration of course blames "higher costs"...funny given the global economic boom, everyone has more money and the survey says about 50% of Chinese and Indians cites the political climate "would prevent them from applying to a U.S. business school."

https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/article/2019/11/18...

I don't know how much his family was worth growing up, but I guarantee you he's worth hundreds times now than before and it's appalling that anyone would discount that kind of achievement.

He's quoted as saying...

"I would have come here from any country," he says. "The U.S. is where great things are possible."

If that's not pursuing the American Dream...then I don't know what is.

https://www.inc.com/magazine/20071201/entrepreneur-of-the-ye...

No one you are replying to is discounting anything. Also, becoming obscenely wealthy later in life does not preclude someone from having come from great privilege.

> He came from privilege and wealth from colonial South Africa to Canada

He turned out to be a complete asshole so that doesn't matter. Him siding with white nationalists, the whole pill thing... No, he better go back to Africa with his billions, go fix the world from there.

> I've always found it ironic that in our climate of anti-immigration (including legal immigration) that the person to save our industry of so much American pride, the manned space program, is an African immigrant.

That's quite a pathetic agenda-driven reach. His parents were canadian citizens, making him a canadian citizen. Also, Musk's maternal grandfather was born in america and he has ancestral ties to the Pennsylvannia Dutch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk

Also, Musk attained his US citizenship as a canadian because it is easier to attain US citizenship as a canadian than a south african. In other words, musk immigrated to the US from canada, not south africa. So not quite the "african" "immigrant" story you are desperately trying to frame.

Whether you are pro or anti-immigration, Musk isn't the typical immigration story. He came from wealth, he came from a fellow anglo nation and had ties to the US. It's not anything like what an african or most other immigrants experience.

Sorry, but there's no typical immigrant story. The world is a diverse place and everyone has their own stories or experiences. What's pathetic is you don't realize or appreciate that. I'm sorry you have perceived stereotypes of immigrants.

> Sorry, but there's no typical immigrant story.

Yes there is. It's the immigrant story shared by the vast majority of immigrants.

Musk's "african" "immigrant" story is atypical. Just lik Rupert Murdoch "harrowing" and "difficult" journey to become an american citizen.

Good god.

> The world is a diverse place and everyone has their own stories or experiences.

Sure. But within that is a typical and atypical story. When you say "african immigrant", nobody thinks elon musk for a good reason.

It's funny to think very few people even recognize him as an African.

I recognise his accent, but few people have experience associating long term with South Africans.

His accent is also really mild, relatively speaking

Stop misrepresenting the point. Careful what you conflate. We do not have a "climate of anti-immigration".

The issue is ILLEGAL immigration. Musk is a legal immigrant. Trump's wife is a legal immigrant. My wife is a legal immigrant.

Few are actually opposed to legal immigration. Most either are legal immigrants, or descended therefrom just a few generations back. Yes there's a few marginal idiots, but they're ... marginal.

No, there's definitely a climate of anti-immigration. There's been plenty of actions recently to make it harder for people to legally immigrate, like increased RFE's and H1b denials, suspension of green card issuance and a rumoured plan to stop OPT for F-1 students. Ask yourself this: do you think the climate supports increasing or decreasing the level of migration? Imo the legal/illegal immigration distinction is meaningless because you can _change_ what is legal or illegal. Someone who is "against illegal immigration but for legal immigration" could hold any belief from "we should have zero family-based migration" to open borders.

The mess that is h1b and eb3 for indian educated immigrants working in highly paid white collar jobs tells me that usa is not open for immigration.

What else do you call a 70 year waiting line for green card? Forget citizenship, people do not even get to enjoy the rights associated with permanent residency.

>What else do you call a 70 year waiting line for green card?

We call it fairly distributing the limited number of green cards so that non-Indian immigrants like myself can get a chance to come here too. :)

I don't think it's fair to award opportunities to a person not on their own merit, but based on their nationality. I don't think it's fair to strive for equal number of Icelandic nationals and Indian nationals. It is not fair, but the very definition of unfair.

Language would be better. The monolingual nature of the USA has long been a huge economic and cultural advantage.

So instead of an equal number of Icelandic nationals and Indian nationals, we could strive for an equal number of people speaking Icelandic, Assamese, Bengali, Bodo, Dogri, Gujarati, Hindi, Kannada, and so on. Those with excellent-quality English don't face the limit.

Many people are opposed to expanding legal immigration. From what I understand it's currently quite hard to get into the U.S. legally.

The current climate we are in wants reduced legal immigration as well. Easy examples (and I don't even follow immigration news) are

1) Wanting to not allow immigrants to sponsor their parents anymore 2) Not issuing green cards to reduce the spread of corona virus. You know what actually reduces spread of corona virus? wearing masks, which Trump isn't in support of.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2020/04/23/new-t...

Right...So what do you call Trump want trying to prevent immigrants to sponsor their parents to the US? Meaning if your wife wants wants to take care of her parents in the USA, she cannot? Is that appealing for immigrants?

What do you call the Trump administration literally stopping the issuing of green cards because it "helps contain the spread of COVID-19".

You really think limiting the legal immigration process is not full blown anti-immigration?

Yes, it is not. Every nation has reason to limit immigration for assorted reason - not to be confused with being “anti immigration”.

Disease, crime, and simple assimilation capacity limits how many we can/should take in.

You added a point not exactly accurate. The problem also are people who bend the rules and immigrate to this country not in line with our laws - like Trump's wife - because they are privileged.

Illegal immigration of all kinds is the issue - including immigration under false pretenses.

Trumps wife is literally an illegal immigrant. She broke work visa laws and wasn’t punished because she was white and wealthy.

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