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Comment by starnix17 | Hacker News Reader

It's great software, and definitely worth $5, but one thing concerns me.

Most open source software I use requires Xcode to be installed in order to use GCC and other build tools.

Does this mean you'll have to purchase Xcode 4 in order to (easily) install these tools from now on?

I totally agree that software is worth paying for, especially at 5$, but what is it that rubs the wrong way about this? It's so irritating. Developer tools should be free. Charge more for something else!

If I may quote PG: "They make such great stuff, but they're such assholes. Do I really want to support this company?"

This is only getting more and more true. Stop it Apple!

I want to point out Visual Studio (http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/en-us/), but I don't know how it compares. The Express version is free, but the "Utlimate" version is almost $12,000. There are "Premium" and "Professional" below that. I don't know how the features of the various versions compare to XCode.

I couldn't do a feature by feature comparison but generally speaking if you're not in a team you can go pretty far on the express editions. The express edition of SQL Server is also good.

I'm pretty sure that the only reason they're charging for it is because they feel they're obligated to by accounting requirements. Same reason they charge for Facetime. I'd wager Xcode 4 will be included for free with Lion, just like Facetime will be.

I highly doubt it. This is not some part of the OS or something, this is a standalone product and it is still OK in the US to have products that are free. Also, they've been giving xcode away for free for a decade, long after this accounting practices thing came up.

Actually, they've been including Xcode with the OS and giving away minor updates for free. History of Xcode, every new major version was released with an OS and would not run on the previous versions of Mac OS X. See also: iPod Touch until recently. Major updates cost some nominal amount of money, minor updates are free.

Yeah, which I think invalidates your accounting hypothesis. If accounting is the reason for the cost then they would have already been charging for it.

No, because they were distributing it as part of the operating system, which they sold.

Why should dev tools be free? Adobe's whole business is selling dev tools. Should Adobe stop selling Flash Builder and instead sell Flash Player?

Dev tools should only be free when the platform owner is desperate for developers. This used to be true for Apple, but not any more!

Adobe sucks.

Well there's a limit to how many developer tools should be free.

If you're talking about the basic command line utilities and libraries that you use to build applications, then yes, they should be free.

If you're talking about a fully featured IDE with all the bells and whistles, stuff that can refactor code easily, has a decent built in build system. Then no, you shouldn't expect it to be free.

Worth paying for if you're certain you need it, but it will turn away lots of curious hackers. I have a hard time seeing raising the barrier to development, even by $5, as anything but a horrible move.

I have paid a lot more than $5 for things I don’t need and I consider myself frugal.

The $5 certainly raise the barrier but that doesn’t mean that it’s not worth it for those who are merely curious.

Same thing crossed my mind, then I remembered that I wouldn't really be getting much from the 3->4 upgrade since I don't use Xcode itself.

I'm guessing they'll something similar to what they typically do with iLife (and, more recently, FaceTime): Charge existing customers for upgrades, but offer it for free with new (operating?) systems.

Regardless, Xcode 3 is still available as a free download.

I just hope they keep Xcode 3 around. The idea of paying $5 for make and gcc is abhorrent.

If this ships with gcc or other GPL software, somebody will obtain the tools it legally, ask Apple for the sources to that GPL software so that he can build a copy of gcc and put it on a website.

If Apple does not distribute the sources (and probably also if they do) we will soon see a response from Richard Stallman.

Apple does distribute sources, though I'm unsure of how often:

http://opensource.apple.com/tarballs/gcc/

The http header's date for the newest tarball is:

    Last-Modified: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 21:39:59 GMT

One of the major changes for Xcode 4 is that Apple is moving from gcc to llvm as the primary compiler.

They still include gcc in the package as of now, but it is based off a now-old gcc version (4.2 series, back when it was GPLv2) for which they have already released their source changes and it is really only there so old code that expects gcc specific features can continue to be compiled... it is basically deprecated at this point.

Xcode is free. I'm not sure where you're getting $5 from. You do need to create an account to access the download page, but again that is free too.

Edit Ok, when I clicked through the link and downloaded it, I got no $$ warnings. Then as I read some other comments, I see that Apple has changed this. I didn't see anything about needing to pay because I have the paid dev account.

Xcode 4 is not free. I have a free developer account which I use to download previous version and where you see the download page, it refers me to the app store.

For those not registered as iOS or Mac developers (which is $99 a year), it's a $5 download from the App Store: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/xcode/id422352214?mt=12&l...

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