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Comment by DavidBishop | Hacker News Reader

Move Over BMW, My Kia Cost $12,000.

I had a Kia that did the job for 230,000 miles. If all you want is transportation, it does the job.

If you want all the nice things that come with a BMW, however, well, you get what you pay for.

From the article: "Of course, it's hardly the same as an iPad or a Xoom or a Galaxy. It doesn't have any cameras. It has a slower processor. It's not for power users. The video support is pretty limited. A few Android programs still won't run on it. And dedicated gamers will doubtless find it frustrating."

It's an attention grabbing headline which is the purpose of a headline. But the author is not truly comparing Apples and Oranges. He simply wanted to highjack eyeballs.

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He's publishing online; of course he wants eyeballs. But not many people know that the Nook can do double duty as an entry level tablet, with access to the full Android market. Given the cheaper price, I'd say this is a worthwhile article, in the sense that it will probably steer certain people away from overpaying for designer tech they don't need.

All accurate. I'm with you. I'm simply saying the iPad comparison is not real, just a vehicle to get eyeballs.

Of course it is real, you can compare anything. You can compare a bicycle to a SUV (or 4WD), there is nothing wrong with doing that.

And the book does make a decent cheap tablet, not as good as a full tablet, but it does a lot of stuff, more than an just read books.

I do not understand people who get upset at these comparisons.

If you're smart, you don't pay full price for a BMW. I bought my coupe for not much more than the KIA would have cost. In every respect it beats the KIA, except for the carcinogenic new car smell.

However, and this is where the metaphor perks up instead of breaking down, the BMW is not in fact enormously ahead in every category. In most it is only fractionally ahead, and there are even a few where you could argue the toss (I get good mileage, but that is because I don't usually drive like a maniac. :D

Likewise with the Apple products. Usually they are fractionally better in lots of small ways, with perhaps one or two glaring exceptions either way, e.g. awesome battery life, but you can't change the battery.

Currently the two main systems I'm using are Apple and Win 7. With both I have a mouse with a scroll wheel. Scrolling is just a little bit better on the Mac than on Windows. Is this a deal-breaker? Does this one thing mean that Windows is OMG teh-suxxors? Of course not.

But the little things do add up.

Similarly with the iPad vs competitors. I saw one youtube video where some fanboy was gushing over his iPad competitor, but even he noticed that it took awhile (~30 seconds) to boot up. The iPad boots significantly faster than that. Is that a deal-breaker? Of course not. But the little things do add up.

If you install KatMouse (http://ehiti.de/katmouse/) it boosts Windows' scrolling functionality so you can scroll background windows without giving them the focus or bringing them to the front. (Like Mac OS X supports). Not a fight, just a must-have accessory.

Nice tip, thanks! :D

Something else that perplexes me is that even when a window has focus sometimes it still won't scroll. Doesn't matter how many times I click on it. But if I go to the sidebar and jiggle that, it gains the ability to respond to the scroll wheel again. Odd.

I've noticed this too many times... Insight anyone?

> If all you want is transportation

I might not want a Kia but I certainly don't want to bother with a BMW. I need transportation more than I need to make a fashion statement. So far, nobody is making a tablet for me -- a nice affordable Honda.

Of course there is someone making a tablet for you... Apple. The iPad is in no way the BMW in this instance, it's a nice fully loaded Honda Accord (or Civi, whatever floats your boat). Hell there are cellphones that are quite more expensive than the entry level iPad. Five hundred bucks for a great tablet (and an awesome user experience) is honestly quite cheap in the grand scheme of things.

I took this article as a counter to all the articles last week about how no one can beat the iPad on price.

Define 'beat'. Right now there's nothing on the market that can match both the iPad's features and experience and its price. The Nook Color is intriguing as a cheap Android tablet, but it's not at all in the same league as the iPad or Xoom.

Wow, 230K miles! I thought Kia would be one of those brands that broke hopelessly after 50-100K miles.

Did you do anything special beyond regular maintenance? Any big surgeries?

If you're looking for a car that will just keep going, get a Jeep Wrangler.

I have one, it's got 140,000 miles on it, but it still runs like a top and I have absolutely no desire to sell it (and selling it would be easy. I work in the automotive industry).

(Here's my jeep: http://thingist.com/t/item/4204/ - bone stock and I love it).

To stay on topic, I think there is something to be said about the "cheap" brands. My Jeep, is a "cheap" car (it's worth about $5000), but it's a workhorse. I don't think twice about hauling the dog around in it after she's been swimming in the mud, I don't bat an eye when I need to literally pressure-wash the interior, I patched a hole in one of the seats with duct tape, I once made a top for it out of a tarp and some rope (I had my little sister with me and it started raining), there are scratches along the back tailgate from loading it full of mountain bikes and shuttling them up the side of a mountain, I've slept in the back of it many times, etc. etc.

A friend of mine has a Porsche Cayenne. It's really nice, and has a matching +$100,000 price tag. He doesn't let the dogs in it, he covers the leather seats with a blanket when he sets anything on top of them, it's never left the pavement, spilling anything on the interior would be a catastrophe, etc.

From my perspective, he's getting less value for his $100,000 than I am for my $5,000 because he's constantly afraid of breaking it or spoiling it (well, losing on his investment, more accurately).

I think the Porsche vs Jeep debate could be the same as the Nook vs iPad debate. Yeah, an iPad can "do more", it's more valuable, costs more money, it's shinier, it has a faster processor, it's a "better".

But I think I'd be in constant fear of breaking it. It would probably stay in my house most of the time. The nook, on the other hand, costs 1/4 of an iPad, it would go with me everywhere.

Somebody like me would probably get more value out of a nook than an iPad, despite the iPad being technically better.

Kia has a 10-year, 100k mile powertrain warranty. How could they do that if their cars were mostly trash after 50-100k miles?

The paint could blister and peel, the door seals could rot, the dashboard could crack from UV exposure, the shock absorbers could leak, the wipers could seize, the steering could become loose and noisy, etc.

I haven't owned a Kia, nor do I have anything against them, I'm just being pedantic and pointing out that you could fulfill a 100k powertrain warranty and still end up with a car that's mostly trash. :-)

They also have a 5-year 50,000 bumper-to-bumper warranty. I had an issue with my glovebox on my an Hyundai Elantra (same company) It was my fault (long story), but they gladly replaced at 40k miles.

I'm a huge fan. I now own a Kia soul. In the two years I've had it it's been rock solid.

A Kia is a Kia (Sportage). You get a modest car for a modest price. But in fairness, the paint, interior, controls were in great shape on the day it died after 10 years. No complaints.

Like I said, I was merely responding to the parent comment's assertion that you couldn't have a car that was mostly trash at 50-100k miles if it has a 100k powertrain warranty.

Just regular maintenance. I loved the car. I just wanted something that went from A to B and it did it until it's dying day.

>I had a Kia that did the job for 230,000 miles. If all you want is transportation, it does the job.

Thanks for the datapoint. I drove a rental Kia once, and it was...not totally crap, but lacking in fit-and-finish (e.g., the steering wheel vibrated a lot). But that was in 1996; it's good to know they've improved.

The South Korean car industry has improved by leaps and bounds over the past fifteen years. The difference between a Kia or Hyundai in '96 and today is massive. It's really worth taking another look at Kia's products, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

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