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Comment by virtualritz | Hacker News Reader

Amazing. 11 USD for a döner!

A döner is between 2.5 and 5.0 EUR in Berlin (roughly 2.75 to 5.5 USD).

That's takeaway or eat in at a place with a few tables but w/o table service.

Meraba, which uses high quality organic meat from the region, comparable to the quality of the protein stated in the article, asks 4.5 EUR. A whole plate is 10 EUR.[1]

If order to your doorstep it's 6.5 EUR.[2]

[1] https://www.top10berlin.de/en/cat/eating-257/kebab-shops-230...

[2] https://www.lieferando.de/en/meraba

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I would argue Berlin has some of the cheapest food in Europe. Though to be honest the food quality of the 2.5 EUR Döners is usually questionable and I'm not sure how they can turn any profit or actually live from it.

While on a work trip to Berlin, I walked into a random lebanese place in Neukolln to get a quick bite. Looked at the price of a shawarma - 2 euros - and thought, damn, this is going to be awful. But I was in a hurry and got one (actually two, in case they were tiny) anyway. Not only were they not tiny, to this day the best shawarma I've had.

Commercial rents are still insanely low in Berlin. Low fixed costs and high turnover make a low-margin business viable, hence the proliferation of food trucks in Tier 1 US cities.

Not a huge difference, but it's actually 11 CAD, so closer to 7 EUR.

Though tax is on charged separately in Canada, so probably closer to 8 EUR. I’ll admit, in Canada, assuming you’re in a busy part of town, I’ve gotten used to the idea that a fulfilling meal out costs $15-25. The only way I’ve been able to reduce prices further than that is to use a service like MealPal or stack discounts from credit cards and app cash back to get another 10-12% off or so. Not to say there aren’t cheaper places to eat at, but I’d have to drive a bit of a distance to get there. Land/rent really is too damn high everywhere “walkable”... The cheapest places in town are always the ones that have been there “forever” or have the smallest, sketchiest locations, but still have lineups around the block, or they’re simply fast food with coupons.

11 dollars is probably in SF or NYC where average pay is 2 to 3x the one in Berlin.

Inflated by rent costs for sure, but the food cost part has to be cheaper in SF than Berlin.

This is in Ottawa.

I honestly thought that was cheap, and that the answer to the problem was: charge more. I would pay $15 for that doner. Looks delicious.

And for $15 in Berlin you would expect a main course, glass of wine, and espresso in a decent sit-down place, tips included.

$15 CA is €9.50...The meal you describe would still cost more than that, maybe $20 CA & that would be the cheaper end of the spectrum (€7 Mittagsmenü, €3 wine, €1.5 espresso + 10% tip, then convert € to $CA).

If you're in central business locations in Mitte or Charlottenburg it would be more than that. That said you have very cheap options for Turkish, Arab or Vietnamese food in other districts like Neukölln. One of the best benefits I had when self-employed was the cheap & decent "ethnic" food options I had near the coworking space I chose in Neukölln vs having to go to the office in an expensive part of Mitte.

Right, I was thinking USD so ~13€. For that you have a nice main, wine, and coffee in half the ethnic places of Berlin. Not in Mitte as you said though.

As a side note, I don't know anyone actually tipping 10%. At this price range usually it's rounded to next full euro.

I try to tip at least 10-15% and in cash as the waiters for sure earn less than I do & honestly the extra Euro or 2 make 0 difference to a well compensated software developer.

Throw in a cold Lagerbier (€2) to wash it down with and the contrast is even more sobering.

But isn't it cash-only at even most established joints in Germany much less mom and pop immigrant-run hole-in-the-walls? My friend tells me even vape shops that sell hundreds of dollars of gear are cash only.

We have plenty of those in our ethnic neighborhoods. Heck even some very successful joints like Rosamunde Sausage Grill in the Mission District (S.F.) were cash-only until a couple of years ago, when I last went there.

Most other places accept cards & thus have to factor that into the price of the offerings.

But how does cashless pay make it cost a few bucks per serving more? If it is that, why would anyone offer cashless payment?

Most Döner and other Street Foods in Austria are cash only, but that's not the reason a typically priced Döner costs ~5€

Cash-only means no card reader rental, which saves a couple hundred per month and at least 5% of every transaction, and possibly no internet bill, either...

But you can't go cash-only because so few people carry cash, that our would drive out your sales.

5% per tx?! Remember, in Europe debit is way more common than credit and the fees are capped.

Banks charge for handling large volumes of cash though - can be as high as 2% I think; and as others have said 5% is way way more than you'd be paying to accept card payments. If anything the economic incentives are towards going completely cashless these days.

> at least 5% of every transaction

In EU 0.3% or 0.2% depending on card type: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-payments-cards-idUSKBN...

You can easily get sub 2% in the US if you shop around and have ok volume. Just as much exaggeration in this thread as in the article.

The company supplying and supporting the card machine adds a fee, so it's more like 1-2%.

And I'm pretty sure no receipt and under-reported taxes. But what am I saying, that's only something that happens in PIGS, nobody evades taxes in Germany...

Cash only also means you can skip on paying (part) of the taxes because there is no record of any transactions.

The same in Zurich would cost 10-15USD. Some places would do a plate for 15USD.

Prices really do vary wildly across Europe.

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