Comment by renewiltord | Hacker News Reader

Comment by renewiltord | Hacker News Reader

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American cities are not capable of running good public transit because they mostly use it as a combination of a jobs program and a poor-people access program. I was car-free for seven years in San Francisco (supposedly one of the relatively high performers) but my standard of living jumped significantly after I bought my car. Overall, I think I might even come out ahead.

I don't think I'm going to take public transit in San Francisco ever again. They are missing:

* Speed - BART is relatively fast, all Muni is very slow

* Frequency - BART is low frequency, Muni is also low frequency

* Coverage - BART coverage in SF is limited, Muni coverage is reasonably extensive

* Reliability - BART unannounced delays and breakdowns were a frequent occurrence. Unlike Tube delays (which were also frequent) I could not route alternatively because there is only one BART tube in SF. Muni does not have arrival times.

* Usability - You cannot tell before you pass the turnstiles at a BART station whether the lines are delayed or when they will arrive. One exception I know if is Montgomery St. Station but that's the only one.

In Amsterdam, before the corona crisis, the metros went every six minutes. If one gets delayed or you miss one, you just grab the next. Waiting 5 minutes can be awfully long if you're used to grabbing it though, and if it makes you miss your connection that sucks (train mostly, other metro is no problem). Also, parking in Amsterdam (center) is very expensive, AFAIK something like 7 EUR an hour last time I checked. I got family living there; you don't want to go to a birthday and spend 20 EUR on parking. Public transport is cheaper then. Do remember that removing cars still means trams, and pedestrians and cyclists need to be aware of these!

Does buying a car really make sense in a Zipcar/Getaround/Silvercar world? The numbers just don't work out IMO. Not once you factor in fuel, maintenance, damage, insurance, interest, car payments and/or depreciation, $300+/month in parking fees and the fact I still have to rent a bigger car if I need to pick stuff up or drop stuff off or shuttle more people. I gave my car to my parents a couple years after I moved to SF and have never looked back.

It's just so easy to get a car in SF whenever you need it for a few bucks -- sometimes in 15 minute increments.

What's availability like, though? I know that my car doesn't make any financial sense, but my primary use case is getting out of town to go hiking, skiing, etc. I've looked into Zipcar before, but it seemed like I'd have to reserve a car ahead of time to have any chance of getting one on a nice day. In Seattle, we used to have ReachNow, Car2Go and Lime in addition to Zip, but those others recently closed down so I'm also concerned that car share isn't really a sustainable business.

Personally, I've always had a car since school but I've been in on things like a ski house with people from NYC and I lead hikes in New England on the weekends. People can (and do) carpool, rent cars, etc. but it's quite a pain if you do it regularly. Most of the people I know who liven in Boston and are active in weekend outdoors activities own a car because of the hassle of renting.

Maybe you can explain what BART and Muni is for those of us that don't live in your local area?

In SF there are 3 "major" rail links.

1. Caltrain which connects downtown SF to San Jose and Gilroy, notably bypassing both SFO and SJC airport [1]. This is a low frequency, mid-long distance commuter rail link that runs almost exclusively outside SF.

2. BART which connects SF to the East Bay, notably serving both SFO and OAK [2]. This is a medium frequency, larger train - think a hybrid of commuter and light rail. It's fast, long trains that run medium distances.

3. Muni Metro which is the SF subway and light-rail service. In the downtown corridor, all the major stations (from Civic Center to the Embarcadero) overlap with BART, but the trains continue out west into the Sunset [3]. This is high-ish frequency, smaller trains that (outside the downtown corridor) run overland.

[1] http://www.caltrain.com/stations/systemmap.html

[2] https://www.bart.gov/system-map

[3] https://www.sfmta.com/maps/muni-metro-map

> Muni does not have arrival times.

This says a lot. (Only transport which is okay without arrival times is one which has 5 min or less frequency)

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