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Comment by stronglikedan | Hacker News Reader

My standard response to that sort of thing is, "Sorry, but my personal policy is to not make any decision without sleeping on it first." That usually gets them right to the "deal is off" phase quickly, since there's really no good rebuttal for that. Or they leave their materials. Either way, they leave me alone.

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Yep, I have a standing rule that I don't buy anything marketed by someone standing at my front door (I will make an exception for Girl Scout cookies). Someone at your front door is interrupting you, and creating a power imbalance leveraging long standing cultural norms that you invite people in and are courteous. That may apply to neighbors and friends, but not to salespeople.

True on cultural norms. Myself I have found myself being rude and when I answer the door, I point at the "No Soliciting" sign directly below the door bell and keep repeating "No Thank You" until they leave or I decide to close the door if they persist.

As an urbanite: Lol good luck. If you ain’t texting “here” , I ain’t opening the door. What’s a doorbell? :D

This is exactly the reason why there are specific limitations on so called "Haustürgeschäfte" (sales made on the perch of your own home) in German and European law. For example you get a reasonable time period to rethink those sales without any charges.

Yes exactly (I've lived in Germany). And where I live now in southern California, thank goodness, it's actually against the law to "solicit door to door" (I think that's how the law is written).

Before I lived "here", every weekend, guaranteed, at least 4-5 knocks on the door on Saturday & Sunday afternoon (combined). Trying to sell me something that I didn't need, didn't want, and often it felt like a scam.

There are limitations in the US, too:

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/blog/2015/08/door-door-sales-an...

A good more general rule is not ever to buy anything from anyone who has initiated the first contact. Not sure that's going to be an entirely popular thought on a forum of entrepreneurs who live and die by their marketing to an extent, but from a recipient's point of view I do advocate it.

I try not to buy anything that I haven't of my own free will realized I needed or really wanted and then sought out a solution for.

And this is why I canceled my amazon prime membership

On the flip side, it’s far easier to sell to someone that comes to you. In fact, many businesses do just that and don’t even bother with cold sales. This is trivially true in the case of stores but also marketing companies, SaaS offerings. And really it’s better that way. It’s not unsolicited, both have mutual interest and the buyer clearly sees value enough to talk to somebody on the expectation it’ll cost.

This works extremely well as a tourist too. If someone is walking up and offering something to me that is almost always a no. Scams frequently depend on seeking out targets.

Indeed. I always think to myself: if it’s worth coming to my door or cold-calling me there must be a pretty margin. And then they claim it’ll be so much cheaper than my well-researched current contract. Yeah, right.

The only thing that will sometimes peak my interest enough to listen to the pitch, is if they offer non-monetary upside.

Pique (sorry couldn't not do it)

I remember my dad telling me about a farmer he knew, who said to him once, (pointing at his lane), "Any time Jim, I see a f*er driving in that road I know he's not doing it for my benefit"

Last time I just opened the door and spoke first: "Sorry I don't have time to talk to strangers right now" and closed the door before he could say one word.

I'm thinking of preparing an mp3 of a chaotic household (think 10 kids screaming and fighting) for improved effect in the future.

I do something similar.

Before they can speak, I say, "Are you selling solar, politics, or religion?"

They always protest, "But I'm not selling anything..." and go into their sales pitch.

I interrupt with again with, "Solar, politics, or religion?"

90% of the time it's solar. I tell them I rent, and they go away.

this is absolutely true and any product or service that requires sending people to knock on doors in order to sell it is by definition not worth buying, because if it were, they'd sell plenty using regular advertising. anyone that comes to my house to sell something is automatically a scam in my perspective and it is usually those fake electric company / gas people, though sometimes someone offering to redo my driveway.

I outright reject anyone trying to sell me a subscription model at the door - a lot of charities do that, and their sales talk nowadays includes that I can cancel at any time.

But the caveat there is that if I were to do a one-time donation, they would still have my information and the permission to receive mail on file.

Charities are marketing companies; they collect money and advertising permission, and give you direct mailed marketing in return.

You can in fact close the door on people. This is also effective.

The fact that people even open the door to strangers with clipboards is hard for me to comprehend.

If you don't have a badge and a gun, I'm not opening the door for any reason. If you have a badge and a gun, I'm probably not opening the door.

If they have a badge and gun demand that they slip the warrant under the door first. Then call the watch commander to verify it.

Do they just wait around to let you take your time to go back and call to verify?

I don't know, never been served a search warrant.

Obviously this isn't legal advice, but it's what defense lawyer friends have suggested if it ever comes up.

I think that popular video about "never talk to cops" mentions something like it too?

I assume if they don't wait, it helps your court case. They could always go with the "probable cause" argument, but again this can help your case if you can prove they didn't have actual cause.

I'm less worried about the court case and more worried about what can immediately go wrong if you look like you're stalling.

> ... this can help your case if you can prove they didn't have actual cause.

Pro-tip: if they're at your door with a warrant, they have probable cause.

Yeah but if they're robbers with a fake badge and gun, how will I know? At least when they barge in I'll already be on the phone with the cops.

Your threat model is imaginary, if they are robbers posing as cops, they wouldn't knock and wait patiently, they'd just serve you a fake "no knock warrant" (kick open your door and bust in with flash bang grenades).

I'm sorry, this comment is not necessarily a reply to you directly but to the thread in general--are we talking about the real world or some fictional TV show? Genuine question, is this something a "normal" HN reader should be worried about? Is there any evidence of such incidents happening ("kick open your door and bust in with flash bang grenades")?

I see no reason why a robber posing as a cop would want to draw more attention to themselves than necessary.

Could just be at the wrong door.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2010/09/aiyana-stanley-...

My understanding is a valid warrant (which as someone else mentioned does not have to be a physical piece of paper) grants them immediate access and they don't have to wait to verify. If you don't open the door, it will be opened for you by battering ram - demanding you open it is more of a courtesy.

Think about it: say someone has a bunch of drugs, you wouldn't want to give them time to start flushing it down the toilet while they call up and verify the warrant is valid. You kick the door in, arrest them, and secure the scene for forensics and evidence collection.

I assumed something along those lines, but I think they have to knock unless there's a no-knock warrant? I just don't expect they'll be amused if you tell them to hang on for a few minutes while you "verify" the warrant.

There's a lot that go wrong with this approach, and the upside is pretty obviously dwarfed by the (small to minuscule, depending on many many factors) chance of getting murdered while puffing about your rights. Whose front door has a gap underneath it, anyway?

Assuming they knock and announce they have a warrant as opposed to knocking the door down, you open the door and they start coming in immediately. You can read the warrant, they'll likely shove it in your face. You should be on the phone to an attorney or the local bar association before the last officer in past the threshold, anyway.

I'm pretty shocked an attorney would suggest doing something that can very likely be construed as stalling for time when tensions are likely pretty high.

You're aware that -- regardless of what you might have seen on TV or the movies -- they don't actually have to present a physical warrant, right?

Nor do they have to allow you time to call a "watch commander to verify it".

What is likely, however, is that you're gonna be shopping for a new front door if you don't open up by about the second knock -- if they give you that long.

What a weird, paranoid idea. Typically people come to my door for legitimately useful or appropriate purposes.

It's not paranoid, I don't think everybody knocking is coming to get me or anything. I'm just not interested in whatever it is they have to offer.

If I'm in the market for a service, I'll do the research and reach out.

The only people who come to my door are gas people saying that they're going to be turning it off for a period/back on, window washers coming to clean the windows they can't reach from the outside, and similar things. I do want what they offer, because it's useful/important.

He also lives in the US, where current laws and general social norms and expectations means there's a much higher perceived/actual risk to opening your front door to a random stranger, so it's less surprising to hear this..

This problem, at least at that level of magnitude, does not exist in other parts of the world.

Have you ever lived in the US? You're statement is probably only somewhat valid in the worst neighborhoods. People don't shoot you in the face when you open the door...

People come to the door in my neighborhood for only a few reasons:

- to sell me on religion

- to solicit money for some kind of commercial service, charity, non-profit fundraiser

- to sign me up for political stuff

And they do this several times a week (pre-COVID). So I never open the door to surprise strangers. It's not paranoia; it's just preventing the waste of my time and emotional energy. I'm not interested in worshipping a sky demon. It's not incumbent on me to figure out whether the service is legit, rent-seeking grift on top of a legit service, or a total scam. I don't have to figure out how to gently turn them down just to keep junk food out of the house.

I once got lost in typical U.S. suburbia and the first door I knocked the guy wouldn't tell me the direction I needed to go but insisted on driving me there.

I was conscious of being percieved as a potential threat in that situation. But me being percieved as a likely nuisance to be ignored didn't cross my mind.

The only people who ever come to my door are salespeople and religious nuts

What? What if it's a neighbour you haven't met asking you over for a bbq? Or somebody who noticed your garage door was swinging open and wanted you to know they'd closed it?

Or OMG what if somebody needs a boost because their car battery is dead? Oh man, I couldn't bear it if I became that guy who didn't give someone a boost.

Signed, A Canadian HN user

I’d hope none of your hypotheticals would require a “clipboard in hand”, which is the red flag GP mentions - likely it’s a cold calling solicitation.

"If you don't have a badge and a gun, I'm not opening the door for any reason"

That was with the pretext of it being a person standing at your front door with a clipboard--if such a person did not also have a badge and a gun, GP wouldn't open the door.

This really hit me for some reason. I’m a non white American, and not to exaggerate, afraid of knocking on a stranger’s door.

I’d be quite worried if I ever became stranded in a white neighborhood and had to knock on a random door for assistance.

I hope you'll consider changing your media diet, because your current selection is filling you with irrational racist fear. That's not how the real world is. Consider lolc's comment below:

"I once got lost in typical U.S. suburbia and the first door I knocked the guy wouldn't tell me the direction I needed to go but insisted on driving me there.

I was conscious of being percieved as a potential threat in that situation. But me being percieved as a likely nuisance to be ignored didn't cross my mind."

It is what it is. I’d rather be overly cautious than the potential alternative.

My concern is neither racist or irrational, based on my particular racial mix and phenotype.

I think your comment might have had a useful alternative perspective if it could have been made without calling the parent racist and irrational. ISTM difficult to change someone's mind while disparaging their reason and character.

With all the news I keep hearing from the US, I can't say I blame you. It's sad, though. I want to live in a society where people can knock on each other's door, and open the door trusting it's a legitimate friendly talk or person in need, and not a threat or someone looking to take advantage of me.

If you don't have a badge and a gun, I'm not opening the door for any reason.

Then when your irrigation system has sprung a leak and is spewing water all over the side of my house, I'm going to go to the valve on the sidewalk in front of your house and turn off the water to your house while your family is trying to shower and make breakfast.

That's exactly what happened when my neighbor refused to answer his door one morning at 6am.

You guys have valves on the sidewalk that anyone can just shut off?

Yep. They're metal lids labeled "water" that you lift up and inside there is a valve that can be turned. They're very common in most cities in which I've lived.

There's usually an internal and an external shutoff valve. Inside is easier when you're working on things inside, but the water company may need to turn off your water, and they can't depend on being able to get inside. So valve on the sidewalk (or in the lawn as the case may be).

What do guns have to do with anything? Why would a badge alone not be enough? Why are you trying to sound so epic? What are you trying to prove? Are you the type of person who brings assault rifles to a protest to make some sort of cowboy-style point?

I totally get not wanting to talk to people who are trying to sell you something, but if you are such a bad ass, living in your wild west world, why don't you try bringing up the courage to just tell someone at your door that you won't buy anything from them? Seems easy enough to me.

> You can in fact close the door on people.

Hence the saying "get your foot in the door" for getting an opportunity to talk to someone.

Hopefully ensuring that anyone who tries that just happens to subsequently suffer foot pain will work as a deterrent...

Though less socially acceptable. I find that to be the primary advantage of gp's approach.

"We do not give money at the door"

"We do not buy things at the door"

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