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Comment by Cyph0n | Hacker News Reader

As a Tunisian, I'm confused by why Carthage is not on the list. Yes, it was destroyed and rebuilt by the Romans, but the general vicinity has been continuously inhabited ever since.

Actually, a few other Tunisian cities are missing that trace their origins back to late B.C./early A.D., such as Monastir, Mahdia, and El Jem.

Any thoughts on this?

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Marhabat. This particular list is pretty strict on the "continuous" criteria. I guess when the Romans plowed salt into it, continuity was broken, for the purposes of this list.

Carthage does make this list. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cities_through...

It was the world's biggest city circa 300BC.

Marahba!

Yeah, it's either that, or the fact that Tunis (the new capital) was founded 10 miles away after the Umayyads took Carthage from the Byzantines (mentioned by u/scythe).

incidentally, the ancient harbor is now a part of the modern tunisian suburbs: https://goo.gl/maps/bFty3LBqkJ5DTdG88

Ah. makes sense.

I don’t think that the ‘ploughed salt’ approach is considered true anymore. The articles I want to link to are paywalled but there is a good discussion in the below reddit thread. The tldr is the salt was very expensive.

http://www.jstor.org/stable/269786

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/...

Do you mean the literal salt, or the destruction?

I've often wonder about the salt. The salt ritual (or figure of speech) originates in the eastern Mediterranean, which is why it features in the bible. Being Israeli, I always figured the dead sea inspired the idea. I think you'd need a lot of salt to do it literally though.

I wonder how the expression got to Rome? Punic culture & language came from Lebanon, and was similar to biblical Hebrew. It makes sense they used the same metaphors & rituals. Rome though? Was Scipio using a Carthaginian expression? Did he do their own ancient victory ritual to them?

I meant the literal ploughing in of salt crystals seems not to have happened. The destruction doesn’t seem to be disputed. You have given me a new angle to think on though as maybe that is what was meant? Presumably the concept of salting came from somewhere, but short of breaching sea dykes, I can’t see how it could be done easily.

It appears that the original site of the city was abandoned for centuries after the Umayyad conquest of Tunisia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Carthage_(698)

Tunis was founded across the lake as a replacement shortly thereafter, and development shifted there probably for land availability and protection from naval attacks.

Hmm, that makes sense. I suppose a 10 mile move was significant pre-industrialization.

I think it "continuously inhabited" is a blurry line. Jericho (listed) has notes about how it was destroyed a number of times, and lists the time it has been definitely continuously inhabited since.

But I'd certainly expect Carthage to be listed with notes about it's destruction and reconstruction - although I'd note there must be lots of cities founded ~500BCE+ that have been continuously inhabited.

you can probably add them? it's wikipedia after all

Carthage is listed as "Tangier"? Unless it was just added.

The note there lists that Tangier was founded by the Carthaginians. But Carthage itself was located near modern-day Tunis, the capital of Tunisia.

I wonder what their definition of "city" is ... it seems to differ from just "inhabited". They make a distinction somewhere between villages and cities.

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