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Comment by Taek | Hacker News Reader

I'd much rather live in a world where everyone is required to wear masks all the time than live in a world where we are all told to stay home all the time.

I believe it's also well established that any measures taken to slow the spread of a new virus will always result in fewer total deaths, in that sense quarantining is much more effective than just being a pause button.

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"where everyone is required to wear masks all the time"

And this is what bothers me with such laws. No it does not make sense to wear masks all the time. (even assumed only outside) When I am running alone in the forest I do not need a mask. While driving a car alone, or with a partner, I do not need a mask. So the law should be, wearing masks all the time in populated public spaces.

"I believe it's also well established that any measures taken to slow the spread of a new virus will always result in fewer total deaths"

And this is only true if you look only isolated at the virus and do not take into account the various big side effects of a lockdown. Because you will get deaths from: suicide, domestic violence, other diseases, because staying home is not really good for the immune system and general health. Also this only takes into account the rich world. In india staying home is also required, but this is a really serious death risk, if your home is a metal barrack in the slums, with no AC, meaning you just get cooked. Before you starve to death, because you have no income anymore.

This is a false dichotomy. Masks or gloves as worn by ordinary people are nowhere near effective enough to mean lockdowns could end. They're very effective in clinical settings with proper ppe head to toe and procedures for taking them off outside the dirty ward, but there's no way most people can stick to those, nor keep their houses/shops clean enough.

I believe it's also well established that any measures taken to slow the spread of a new virus will always result in fewer total deaths

In the sense that they prevent a healthcare system being overwhelmed yes, in any other sense no, they are very much just a pause button for the spread of the virus, not a cure.

We wouldn't insist that people 'stop breathing' to prevent the spread of coromaviris. It's only somewhat different to insist that we all stop living and working.

Masks and gloves, plus generally keeping 6ft apart and routinely testing and contact tracing/quarantining infected individuals... what's the effective rate there? 95%? The modern medical establishment would move heaven and Earth, and incur thousands of dollars per person to get that last 5%. Most of us routinely ignore them in this regard, with respect to our own personal health, as we live our daily lives.

There just isn't a lot of evidence for the case that the choice is shutting the economic or killing millions.

> There just isn't a lot of evidence for the case that the choice is shutting the economic or killing millions.

Which is why we have models, no?

Yes, although reality seems to be disagreeing with the models more and more. You have countries in southeast Asia with community transmission but no lockdown, and countries in Europe with the military enforcing a strict lockdown, and the latter are far worse off in terms of hospital admissions and deaths per capita than the former.

Did the European countries not get their transmissions before they implemented a lockdown?

My understanding is it takes 1 - 3 weeks to see the effect of a lockdown?

"fewer total deaths" Yes, but not fewer total infections. You save lives by spreading out the infections over time, reducing strain on the healthcare system.

Neither please. Hospital facilities available and keeping immune systems up, a big yes, but also we have to accept that people die.

How about neither.

> I'd much rather live in a world where everyone is required to wear masks all the time

A properly fitting mask is uncomfortable. It hurts your nose, it hurts your ears. If you wear spectacles they fog up. People don't tolerate them, and so they fiddle with the mask, taking it off and putting it back, or dropping it under their chin.

Here's what happens when you wear a mask for a couple of shifts at work.

https://twitter.com/gabbyjackson95x/status/12479391789623255...

https://twitter.com/george_kerris/status/1241821041107906560

https://twitter.com/LeaBasra/status/1246467174589517825

https://twitter.com/CorneliaLG/status/1247309904106393608

https://twitter.com/paigeleigh95/status/1247509440405876738

https://twitter.com/gsmarri/status/1241845315587715073

https://twitter.com/molliemariaa/status/1246285482130059267

https://twitter.com/freyja_woolston/status/12472261992120115...

https://twitter.com/johnnynash69/status/1248278245914693639

https://twitter.com/TJGrundy/status/1247771125553065986

https://twitter.com/rosenorth_/status/1247235204957208577