Comment by yoshyosh | Hacker News Reader

Comment by yoshyosh | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

I'm learning how to make tacos starting with the tortilla. I'm originally from San Diego and have always missed Mexican food whenever I moved abroad. On a recent trip back to San Diego, I went to over a dozen Mexican shops to find particular flours to create tortillas from. I also went to Mexico twice just to find a specific brand of soft wheat flour. In total I think I experimented with atleast 5-6 different flours thus far. Since then I've made over 150 tortillas, learning things like the importance of the ratio of fat/water/flour, the proper heat, feel, and cook time. Rolling it with flour and without, hand patting vs mechanical tortilla presses. Simple mistakes are like the difference between making a cracker and a tortilla. There's also things like the elasticity of the dough the longer it sits so things like heated tortilla presses become important to help it keep its shape, since the heat slightly cooks the tortilla as it's being pressed into shape. Compared to pure mechanical ones where the tortilla will retract back due to no heat forcing it to sit in place. I'm still hoping to invest in a heated press once I return to the States since I can't find them in Amsterdam.

Overall I'm enjoying the craft of it all and will be soon moving towards learning the details that go into making sauces and carne asada.

One trick for those that are not as advanced as you are: For whatever wheat you are using, add boiling water instead of cool water.

I've found this trick worked (a few years ago now) for a couple of trials where I wanted to use just flour and water. I think the boiling water makes the flour more elastic.

U̶n̶l̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶b̶o̶i̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶a̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶r̶e̶s̶u̶l̶t̶s̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶p̶u̶r̶i̶f̶y̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶t̶,̶ ̶b̶o̶i̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶b̶a̶b̶l̶y̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶d̶o̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶b̶e̶s̶i̶d̶e̶s̶ ̶s̶l̶i̶g̶h̶t̶l̶y̶ ̶s̶p̶e̶e̶d̶ ̶u̶p̶ ̶a̶u̶t̶o̶l̶y̶z̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶l̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶w̶a̶t̶e̶r̶.̶ *This is probably wrong--see edit. Didn't know about this process because you'd never want to do it with anything you're going to add yeast to.

I've done a fair amount of experimentation on on bread making, and a very important step in bread making is autolyzing[0] the flour and water (letting the flour and water rest for a period after combining them).

However, the only reason water temperature matters in autolyzing is because you want an optimal temperature for yeast at the end of the autolyzation process[1].

More likely, what matters more is not the temperature of the water (assuming distilled, pure water, not subject to local tap water differences), but the time you let it the flour and water autolyze. My suspicion is that even though tortillas don't involve yeast, autolyzation is still important for optimal results.

NINJA EDIT:

Interesting, after doing some more research, I discovered boiling water is actually used to gelatinize flour--resulting in much more elastic dough, as you specify[2].

[0] https://www.kingarthurflour.com/blog/2017/09/29/using-the-au...

[1] https://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/a-few-tips-on-dough-temp...

[2] http://thebreadmaiden.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-science-behin...

Hot water encourages hydration of the flour and gluten development, resulting in a more elastic/homogeneous dough. IMHO, the hottest water from the tap should be good enough for that purpose.

True, but hot tap water doesn't always taste very good. If you've ever had seen the inside of a water heater, you will never want to consume hot water again. It's often full of rust and scale.

You and the other commenter are correct. Just meant that temp ~120F as a reference. Have lived in a calcite water area, no fun.

Water from the standing hot water heater typically doesn't taste as good.

agreed with this, hot liquids def made things much easier

I've seen a lot of custom made hotplate/pans made by a lot of my hispanic friends families for making tortillas, it's basically a slab of metal on a stove with a handle. I don't know anywhere that makes them since all of them are a kind of "I had a friend weld it for me" situation, but I found that those hotplates made making tortillas much easier.

You mean a comal? I got one I love off Amazon a couple years ago for about $10. It's handy for all sorts of things because it heats faster than a large cast-iron skillet with sides. It's great for reheating pizza and melting sandwiches (couple it with a metal cover for doing just that for a double bonus).

Good call, maybe I should just look into getting something custom made here. This is the press I'll likely buy once back https://www.amazon.com/Mexican-Electric-Tortilla-Gorditas-Bu...

Oh man, this is a topic near and dear to my heart! I'm originally from California, but I lived in Mexico for several years.

I am dying for some good traditional tacos. (Currently abroad but far from Mexico)

The best tortillas I had were the handmade ones, made from organic blue maize.

I want to live in Mexico for a little bit one day. I imagine you came out of that with a taste for tacos that can't be matched anywhere. Were there any spots that you really enjoyed that had the organic blue maize that you liked or was it mostly abundant because Mexico hah? I'll definitely bookmark it :-)

I recommend it if possible. I had such an amazing experience living there. It's funny, I never miss the US but I always miss Mexico.

I mostly lived in Mexico City, but I've traveled a lot around the country and spent time living in a few other cities for shorter periods of time. I've probably seen more of Mexico than 90%+ of all Mexicans.

Some of the best food I've ever had was in a small Pueblo (town) called San Sebastián del Oeste in the state of Jalisco. [1] It's a small "magic town" in the mountains in Jalisco. [2]

Most of the best food I've had in Mexico was not in the big cities but in the small towns. Especially, the family-owned places where there's an older Mexican lady cooking up food. Cliché but true.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Sebasti%C3%A1n_del_Oeste [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pueblos_M%C3%A1gicos

Thanks for the suggestions, I'm planning on Mexico City and some other small towns like you mentioned. Will definitely add to the list!

Would you mind sharing some (or all) of your findings? I've never been to that part of the world (based in Europe) but been planning to prepare home made tortillas since last week. I'm struggling to find such in-depth insights on how to perfect the meal.

Would you mind sharing your tortilla recipe and/or pointers?

For sure, I mostly watched the Taco Chronicles Carne Asada episode on Netflix about 20x haha but here's a link to a similar recipe https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1019621-sonoran-style-fl... however here's the gist of what's been working well for me so far since I love flour tortillas more so than corn:

Current recipe

130g flour

80g hot water (steaming)

35g lard

1g salt

Twice as much baking powder as what you see in salt (it weighs less so I don't see it registering on the scale)

Depending on your location, you may use 120-125g flour, 80g water because the water/environment is just different.

1. I typically place a pan on a scale and then put in 35g lard (pork and duck have worked well for me), then I put the pot on the lowest heat to melt. Fat is key, I tried using oil, butter, etc in the past and it didn't work well for me. It's also possible because I was butchering all the other steps too, this is what I call my cracker tortilla days :(.

2. Next I put on my kettle for hot water (80+ grams worth), it's fine if it boils but you mostly just want hot steaming water.

3. I put a bowl on the scale and pour in 130g of flour. Flour of course is another key element since not just any flour gets the job done, I've been experimenting and having some success with flours in Europe though that are more artisan bread friendly. Here are some Mexican ones https://allofeverythingblog.wordpress.com/2014/04/16/autheni... that you want to look for and you can also try to order some online (white sonoran wheat flour). Weirdly enough, there is a difference with El Rosal in America vs the ones from Mexico, the American ones are enriched and bleached which gives it a slightly diff dirt like smell and flavor. I recommend finding a way to get the flour from Mexico if possible.

4. I take the pot with fat off the fire, let it sit for a 1-2 mins.

5. I take the hot water off the fire, and pour it into a mug on my scale, looking for 80g of weight.

6. I put the baking soda and salt into the fat, along with the hot water from the mug, stir it up so it's all mixed.

7. Pour in the flour and mix it a bit with a fork, then knead it like you're folding the dough on itself for about 5 minutes. At first it may stick to your hands but after a minute or so that should go away, if it doesnt you need to add a tiny bit of flour, or water if its too dry. This is hard to explain since its more a feel. After 3 sessions or so you start to understand the consistency you're looking for.

8. After 5 minutes you should have a smooth dough that you can then pinch off into 8 tiny golf balls. If you let the dough sit here, which isn't necessary, (I've tried as long as 4 hours) it becomes quite elastic which makes it harder to press/roll the tortilla to a manilla folder thin thickness.

9. Roll them into a ball and then I recommend using a press with baking sheets so they dont stick, but you can also use a rolling pin.

10. If using a rolling pin, roll it up and down into a rounded button like shape, then turn that horizontal and do it again with equal pressure on both sides of the pin, this should result in a circular shape. I don't recommend adding flour since that will result in a more floury taste, but I'm still trying to figure out how to get around this without a press, since the tortilla will stick to your surface without baking paper. I don't recommend foil/plastic because the creases will reflect in your tortilla. At the end of rolling, they should be pretty thin (manila folder thin)

10. Make sure your pan is on medium high heat, takes about 5 minutes to get there, sometimes longer if using a cast iron. Then place your tortilla on the pan, it should bubble within 20 seconds, then you can flip it wait another 15-20, then flip again. This is pretty crucial, if the heat is too low its undercooked with no bubbles, if its too high it burns and the little brown spots will crack as you try to roll your tortilla. Heat's probably one of the most important parts which took us about 50 tortillas to learn.

11. After that you can place it on a plate or in a tortilla warmer.

Hope this helps! In the future I'll probably look into corn but that's definitely once I perfect an entire taco first.

Thank you, it's just what I happened to be looking for!

For those of us in Europe can you recommend your choice of flour (and perhaps some other replacement ingredients)

I'm still trying to figure it out as well. I think for flour, experimenting with any artisan bread type flours would be good. The wheat flour at your supermarket may work though, you'll likely need to try it out and compare. The differences can start to become subtle. Vegetable shortening is also a decent replacement for lard, the ones like Crisco that come in a can and look like lard/non liquid oil. Some of my favorite taco places like https://www.instagram.com/elrusola/ use exclusively that.

I would also avoid things like Maseca if you have the time to try to figure things out, since they are a pre mix just add water type thing for corn tortillas specifically.

Maseca. It's the same as they use in Mexico, and happens to be produced in Italy.

Get it at your local delicatessen, or your local Hyper Market.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com