Hacker News Reader

Comment by SQueeeeeL | Hacker News Reader

We're so fucked, we can't even distribute supplies to people who can't leave their homes without giving them massive exposure risk. Not sure why it's so hard to buy some fucking masks and gloves for the warehouse

View on HN

Are there any masks to buy? A lot of news articles are about governments seizing mask shipments. Furthermore, I think most masks are being allocated to hospitals.

There are masks to buy. The FDA also lifted the import restrictions on KN95, but those would not even necessarily be needed by a warehouse work force. If you can get the freight to the US and you are willing to pay for it, you can buy masks that would be good enough to equip a warehouse workforce.

Other small warehouses I have personal knowledge of have been equipping their workers with masks and gloves daily in addition to hazard pay. It is just lack of attention to the issue that has caused the problem at Amazon. 99 out of 100 times I would support Amazon in any labor dispute. However, in this case, Amazon has not acted intelligently and the demands were very reasonable. The cost of equipping employees is much lower than the cost of more warehouse shutdowns due to illness and the comparison is so ridiculously in favor of "equip the employees" that even the hardest-hearted, self-interested Scrooge of a manager should be able to see the utility in equipping employees appropriately. As other even larger employers like Walmart have moved to make protective equipment available to all employees, Amazon is left looking stupid/evil/self-destructive in its approach here.

You need an N95 to reliably block incoming virus, and there's a shortage of these, but any mask or covering (even a homemade one) can drastically cut down on outgoing virus, which is particularly important for people like warehouse workers who have the potential to be super-spreaders.

So then what, should the warehouse be left operating under those circumstances... if even one person has COVID, they'll handle thousands of items a day and disperse them all over the country. That's a massive risk

Do we have some numbers on how long the novel coronavirus stays infectous on surfaces?

I believe this is still the most up to date https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200320192755.h...

3 days on plastic...

But that's closer to an in-vitro, number, right? It doesn't account for how transmissible it still is?

> Are there any masks to buy?

If you have the money yes, apparently : https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/02/global-battle-...

Gloves don't really do much good when it comes to coronavirus. Even if they are completely sterile when first putting them on, the problem is that you can pick up the virus on the gloves. You still have to be careful not to touch your face or eyes. Every health organization I've seen recommendations from says hand washing is the best thing you can do to prevent spreading or acquiring the virus via touch.

I haven't seen anyone out in public wearing gloves who comes close to observing the required protocol: touching their personal possessions, using their phones or my favorite, the guy who had pulled up his mask onto his forehead so he could have a smoke, while still wearing his gloves.

I would also imagine gloves are a better transmission medium for the virus as well...

I then go to my car and see used plastic gloves thrown all over the parking lot. It made me so mad. I just want to yell out "Be Better, People!".

Fair point, then they should be mandating hand washing. Still doesn't stop someone from coughing on your grandma's shipment of cat food...

Shouldn't the virus be dead by the time the package gets delivered?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200320192755.h...

I actually thought viruses lived forever, but I was wrong. The paper linked in this article says 1 day on cardboard, 3 days on plastic.

> I actually thought viruses lived forever, but I was wrong. The paper linked in this article says 1 day on cardboard, 3 days on plastic.

I think it's more complicated than that. There are viruses that are enveloped in a membrane, and ones that are not. Unenveloped viruses can survive much longer on surfaces. IIRC, Covid-19 is an enveloped virus.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4462923/:

> Non-enveloped viruses, such as coxsackieviruses, rotavirus, or poliovirus, can survive for extended periods on surfaces (9, 10), while enveloped viruses, including H1N1 and human coronaviruses, remain infectious on surfaces after several days (6).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1564025/:

> Most viruses from the respiratory tract, such as corona, coxsackie, influenza, SARS or rhino virus, can persist on surfaces for a few days. Viruses from the gastrointestinal tract, such as astrovirus, HAV, polio- or rota virus, persist for approximately 2 months. Blood-borne viruses, such as HBV or HIV, can persist for more than one week. Herpes viruses, such as CMV or HSV type 1 and 2, have been shown to persist from only a few hours up to 7 days.

It's easier not to touch your face if you see a glove when you raise your hand, it's a visual cue to stop.

Detecting RNA on cardboard after 24 hours doesn't equal "massive exposure risk."

The odds of getting a virus from a mailed package are astronomical and then some

My sense is that people are getting paranoid about packages in an attempt to do everything they can to not get sick. The biggest wins are stopping gatherings of people, stopping non-essential work, and social distancing. The rest is going to be way more marginal.

There's a lot of plastic in Amazon packages I get... someone could easily sweat on the shrink wrap of my floss

I don't know the context, but if you are looking for guarantees in life, then there is no possible way for you to accept any foreign material inside your home. I work in biotech(vaccines) and we have special protocols for disinfecting our incoming materials that go into cleanrooms. They are typically tripple-bagged from the vendor. And even then, there is no guarantee that something wont slip in. Its rare but it happens. If you do any kind of environmental monitoring in your home, and you will be surprised at the amount of bugs that you are currently sharing space with. Coronavirus is the new flavor of the month.

Sweat is not a problem. Droplets from respiratory tract are.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com