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Comment by bakuninsbart | Hacker News Reader

In Germany, there was a protest last week. The only thing enforced by the police was a distance of 2m between protestors. There were also elections in Bavaria, if restricted to mail in. Free speech is alive and well.

In Hungary, you can now get jailed for "undermining the government's containment efforts", this includes speech. They dissolved parliament and suspended elections. That comes after destroying the best university of Hungary for being to liberal, destroying the free media, and starting a huge misinformation campaign with a fitting jewish kapparot.

It is all completely transparent, Hungary is not a democracy, it is a proto-fascist country in the heart of Europe, and this should not be tolerated.

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We have the same laws in Italy. I don't see the big deal.

Hungary just gets bad press—along with Poland—because they're not on board with your/Germany's agenda.

Sorry!

I don't know about the Italian laws, but one of the main criticisms of the Hungarian ones is that they lack an end date. the laws passed in Germany and the Nordic countries (I don't know the Italian laws, sorry), for example, often carry a time limit.

The Hungarian situation is judged by the light of the increasingly authoritarian Orban. From the outside it looks like yet another opportunity for him to pass laws that gives him more power at the expense of civil rights. Last time I checked, the state of emergency during the 2015 immigration wave was still in place, even though hardly anyone tries to go to or through Hungary, regardless of what Orban says. judging Hungarian political climate, I wouldn't be surprised if it is still in place.

No end date that I know of.

Historically, when laws get passed in case of emergency we don't go back how it used to be if it's good for politicians. Hope we don't get quarantined for life, though!

We'll have to wait and see.

"We have the same laws in Italy. I don't see the big deal."

Please don't spread misinformation, our current laws are completely different from what Orban is doing. There indeed are over here some neo fascist leaders who are aiming at destroy our beloved country just like their precursors did nearly a century ago, though luckily they were booted out of the government last year. We're still safe, for now.

What Orban is doing is akin to what Hitler and Mussolini did back then, that is, obtaining full unlimited power through democratic means, then use the power to kill those means. That is, no more parliament (this is a common pattern when democracies transition into dictatorships). Now the only way to have him step down is to ask him politely to do so, hoping not to get jailed in the process. If this seems democratic to you, then good luck when they'll do the same over here a few years from now.

I find it laughable that you talk about democracy, and then you praise "booting out of the government" elected politicians you don't like.

You're also misinformed about how the Italian Constitution says acts that limit freedoms should be passed which is—not how they're doing that—therefore Hitler.

We'll have to wait and see. Let's see if Orban gives back his unlimited powers (might very well not be the case, no idea), and if Italy gives back citizens their freedom. I know that even 20 years after 9/11, the Patriot Act is still in effect, and Americans were not given back the freedoms they took during the emergency.

"I find it laughable that you talk about democracy, and then you praise "booting out of the government" elected politicians you don't like."

Using democratic power to remove democracy isn't the purpose that democratic power was intended to; the best analogy I could find is a son killing his mother. And... yes, I praised his removal because it was extremely clear what he was going to do. He asked people full powers less than one year ago.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-11/beach-boy...

He is also friends with Orban and other not-so-nice presidents around the globe.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/03/31/coronavirus-...

https://www.ansa.it/english/news/2020/03/30/coronavirus-salv...

I mentioned Hitler and Mussolini because what Salvini aims at doing is exactly the same: gaining control of the parliament through a mix of popular acclaim and underground extremist movements, then get full powers and kill any means of removing those powers. Fascism will return to Italy, it's just a matter of time. Incidentally, in 2022 it will be 100 years from the 1922 march on Rome, when Mussolini gained full power, so it might be a convenient (not so) casual coincidence.

https://www.britannica.com/event/March-on-Rome

> I mentioned Hitler and Mussolini because what Salvini aims at doing is exactly the same: gaining control of the parliament through a mix of popular acclaim and underground extremist movements, then get full powers and kill any means of removing those powers.

Do you have anything that could even remotely give credit to that, or is that like saying he's a reptilian from Mars who will kill us all?

You're just making stuff up to justify the rest of what you're saying. He called for an election because the M5S lost like 90% of support compared to the beginning, he didn't attempt a coup like you're implying.

What's really using democratic power to remove democracy is the EU—which isn't democratic by design—and is and has been trying to strip power from sovereign nations. In part thanks to people like you, who look for Hitler everywhere but where you should actually look.

Anyway, everyone is entitled to think whatever. I should move on to more productive things, anyway.

You are a complete idiot if you think that what is happening in Hungary is in any way comparable to how Germany is governed.

> You are a complete idiot if you think that what is happening in Hungary is in any way comparable to how Germany is governed.

I thought that HN was for civil discussion..?

Where is Dang when you need him.

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