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Comment by jakear | Hacker News Reader

So that’s CA and NY both with shelter in place. Strange that WA hasn’t implemented it yet.

This seems to be a reaction to people not doing it on their own sufficiently enough, like what happened in Italy. Perhaps Washingtonians are taking the recommendations more seriously, so they don't require an official mandate. That decision can't be a light one, and I don't envy those that have to make it.

There is no law enforcement action being taken for the NY or CA order. They’re relying on “social-pressure” to keep people inside.

I've seen videos of NYPD going in and telling people in restaurants to clear out (from days ago). I wouldn't be surprised to see NYPD telling people to clear out for this too.

Adding onto this, people are indeed being arrested and charged by the NYPD for disorderly conduct and failing to disperse: https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-state...

More broadly, if you live in NYC and know the NYPD, then of course they're going to respond in this manner when such orders come out. When they have authority, they use it.

It takes time to criminalize freedom. For some, it can't happen fast enough.

If someone wants to exercise their freedoms and accept responsibility for harm they cause to themselves, I don't have a problem with that. I do however have a problem with someone's exercise of their freedoms causing physical harm to me without my consent. In the same way that it's not acceptable to get lit and then drive a car because it creates a risk to other people, people should shut up and stay inside when told to do so in this context as they risk getting sick or being sick and spreading the disease to others, potentially killing them.

That's how it should work. Excellent example. Automobile deaths account for over 3000 deaths per day, far in excess of what covid19 has or will do.

Given that information, it seems that you would recommend people "shut up and stay inside" due to the "risk to other people". This is not rational.

Giving up everyone's freedom and accepting simple authoritarian solutions a few vocal people want is not a good approach. Punishing perfectly healthy people by threat of imprisonment as a result of the absence of planning by the nation's healthcare and government is not a reasonable response.

That 3000+ per day is for the entire globe. And horrifyingly, there’s a chance the US alone will surpass that for some period in the coming weeks. Italy recorded 600+ today, and we’re much bigger. Plus we are way behind on locking down.

That sounds horrifying. What information leads you to believe that the United States will be having so many automobile deaths in the coming weeks?

Don’t be purposely obtuse. You know what I meant.

From my reading of it, the NY order is directed at businesses—essentially, "you must not require your employees to be on site."

It's not primarily intended to tell individuals "you must stay home," just to strongly encourage that and make it easier for us to do so.

3 days later and the law enforcement action is beginning in NYC: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/24/nyregion/coronavirus-new-...

There are still many employers that refuse to allow work from home for employees that can.

> Perhaps Washingtonians are taking the recommendations more seriously

I doubt that. I'm in a mid sized city in WA and I've seen a notable increase in traffic in the last week. People are leaving their homes more now. Most of the offices are empty so I'm not entirely sure where they're going, but they're going somewhere.

Maybe outdoors? Maybe fleeing cities, or going to be with family in other parts of the country since it's clear this is going to last for months?

There's nowhere to go, unless you got to a cabin for a year. Every state has double digits which is where WA was just a few weeks ago. I guess being with family might be nicer but also a larger cluster of people to infect in your household.

Seconding this. We're 30 miles north of Seattle and there are tons of people still out and about. Beautiful weather isn't helping.

Seattle area is much sparser than NYC or SF. I still go out for walks and stuff and don't really see very many people and I'm only 20 minutes north of downtown. Keeping a 20ft distance is very easy.

Can confirm. I'm in central Washington, and while restaurants and bars are closed, people are _definitely_ not respecting social distancing guidelines. I've even had people tell me to move closer to other people when standing in line at grocery stores.

Huh? NY is explicitly not a "shelter in place". It is a restriction only on employers, not individuals.

Other than kids, I haven't seen anyone really violating the social distancing protocol. People are out and about but not really going near one another except for people that look like they live together (couples, families, etc.)

IL will start theirs on Saturday.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-il...

WA has high testing capacity compared to rest of country and has a very low "new-cases" grade (almost flat). So until it gets worse, they're probably in an "okay" position.

Give it time

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