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Comment by fiblye | Hacker News Reader

> I certainly wouldn't want to buy coffee that was roasted in Ethopia; it would be awfully stale by the time it gets here.

But if Germany is the 4th largest exporter in the world as the parent comment said, apparently plenty of people have no problem buying stale coffee from them.

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I see that note in the comment, but I don't understand how Germany can be a coffee exporter when they don't grow coffee there. They can only export as much coffee as they import.

This sounds like a warehousing and shipping operation to me. Calling Germany an exporter seems like calling an Amazon fulfillment center a "manufacturer" of the products they ship to customers. Or calling Sweet Maria's or Coffee Bean Corral or Happy Mug coffee "growers".

But maybe I don't understand the terminology, and I am definitely out of the loop on mass market coffee.

Actually, Tom of Sweet Maria's did try to grow his own coffee here in California, with hilarious results. Behold, Finca West Oakland:

https://legacy.sweetmarias.com/library/finca-west-oakland-gr...

Germany is a roasted coffee exporter. They import green coffee beans from developing countries and process them into various coffee products (roasted beans, ground coffee, soluble crystals). Because they are transforming a raw material through an industrial process, they end up with a new product which they sell to the world (export).

What might be confusing is Germany also re-exports green beans to other countries, at a markup. This is a much smaller % compared to the coffee products they export.

Does this clarify things?

That does, thank you very much for the detailed explanation. I was only looking at part of the picture.

The comment I was referring to was pretty explicit in saying they don't grow beans, meaning they've likely got a big chunk of their coffee economy involved in selling "stale" coffee. It's probably relatively fresh within the EU, but I've definitely seen more than my fair share of European roasted coffee thousands of miles and many shipping weeks away from the roaster.

Companies in Germany, like Switzerland, Netherlands, US etc import green coffee from around the world, roast it, mix various types and origins and qualities to produce commercial recipes that have a stable taste, then grind it and pack it in air sealed packs (as soon as possible after roasting). Being an import hub for green coffee allows the mixing, essential for commercial coffee. Coffee producing countries usually put duties on imports of green coffee to protect local production. They could import roasted coffee to then mix with local production, but that would have to be air/sealed in bulk, which i imagine is quite costly. And I suspect the market for single origin coffee is still too small to allow economically viable operations. Once roasted and sealed from the effect of air oxidation and humidity, coffee can last quite a while, certainly enough to be exported throughout the world.

I think people also underestimate the efficiency of supply chains. Not quite the same thing because of scale, but one of the best places in the US to get oysters is restaurant in Denver, CO. While Denver is not near water, it is near the center of the US and gets fresh oysters from both coasts.

I'm not sure many people are air-shipping coffee for freshness, but Germany could easily provide 'fresh' roasted coffee for anywhere in Europe.

What’s the restaurant name? I’m in Denver and love oysters

Jax Fish House downtown. I used to think it was just a localish place, but I've mentioned 'good oysters in Denver' to vendors who travel a lot and they all immediately say Jax. Admittedly, I haven't been to Jax in quite a few years since moving to the coast, but people I talk with still say it's great.

https://www.jaxfishhouse.com/lodo/

Cool, thank you! I walk by it all the time, never occurred to me that it might actually be really good.

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