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Comment by smallgovt | Hacker News Reader

If there's a silver lining, it's that takeout is higher margin for restaurants and I'm sure takeout revenue is spiking during city shutdowns.

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No it’s not. The margin on one beer is more than two entrees put together.

But a takeout beer would be higher margin than a sit-in beer.

That's probably only possible in places like New Orleans. I was surprised to learn about the notion of the "to-go cup" a few years back. It has significant explanatory power in some parts of the city.

It's not legal in most places, but being temporarily legalized in some. Washington, DC is passing a bill this afternoon [1] allowing takeout places to deliver beer/wine if ordered with at least one food item. I'm guessing other cities will pass something similar.

[1] edit: See section 203 photographed here: https://twitter.com/mitchryals/status/1239938801839099905

I couldn't find this by googling. Can you post a link?

It's part of the COVID-19 Emergency Amendment Act of 2020 [1] that was passed today.

[1] http://www.icontact-archive.com/archive?c=653228&f=109&s=277...

To-go cups are legal in NYC as of Tuesday, so long as they're sold with food[0].

[0] https://ny.eater.com/2020/3/17/21182052/new-york-state-liquo...

How many people order takeout beer at restaurants? Depending on the city it's often not even legal.

Who would order a takeout beer? If I was going to get takeout and wanted a beer I’d stop at a liquor store or gas station on my way home.

In Pennsylvania at least liquor stores are state run and closed at the moment. You can get beer or wine at some gas stations but that's about it. Anything less popular than huge international brands or very, very popular micro-brews you typically have to go to a beer distributor for and most of those are closed, too (the only ones open are those defying the Governor's strong recommendation to close).

Basically if you want anything less popular than Sam Adams-level of popularity, you have to get it from a restaurant.

You can get to-go beer (6-packs, growlers, etc.) at any restaurant with a liquor license (provided they sell it that way). You can also get beer AND wine from a large number of grocery stores (Giant, Wegmans, etc.). Only liquor is sold by the state-run stores.

There are also all the local micro-breweries...

It’s crazy that PA shut down the liquor stores, hopefully there’s enough beer and wine left for the truly bad alcoholics that will seize and die without it, seems like a very foolish decision to me, to add the potential strain of alcoholics in withdrawal to the medical system.

A lot of people are just gonna hit the liquor store on their way.

In today’s world Uber eats, Grubhub, etc take 30% of the gross on an order. No way it’s more profitable than having people in house buying alcohol.

The one time I bought on Grubhub I had trouble getting the price to something reasonable even with the coupon I had (only reason I was trying it) because all the menu prices were way higher than at the actual restaurants. Even with (IIRC) the delivery fee waived and a significant % off (I wanna say 20 or 30?) it was about the same as going in. Does Grubhub do the menu-price adjusting part, or do the restaurants?

Unlike your average delivery joint the numbers kept getting worse the more you added, too—no "two large two-topping pizzas and breadsticks at 70% menu price" deals or anything like that.

I noticed the same thing a while back with DoorDash when trying to order some Cracker Barrel breakfast. It was something like a 30-40% hike across the board. I emailed DoorDash to ask what was going on with the prices and got a super misleading response along the lines of "our partner restaurants set their own prices" [1]- basically deflecting the blame back at the restaurant. So I emailed Cracker Barrel, and they are not (or were not at the time) partnered with any delivery service.

[1] actual text from email: "As stated in our Terms and Conditions, the prices for menu items on DoorDash may differ from the prices on the restaurant's own menu. For example, our restaurant partners are responsible for setting the price of their menu items on DoorDash, and some restaurant partners choose to set different prices than they offer for in-store diners."

I noticed the same thing a while back with DoorDash when trying to order some Cracker Barrel breakfast. It was something like a 30-40% hike across the board.

If DoorDash or Uber Eats charges 30% (which is fucking insane if they do), where do you think that comes from? Restaurants aren't making 30% profit.

Compounding the problem GrubHub, and presumably other "gig economy" delivery services, preemptively adds non-partner restaurants against their will:

https://www.sfgate.com/food/article/Grubhub-Michelin-star-SF...

Actually, it may have been DoorDash I used, now that you mention it. Seemed like a really gross way to price delivery, giving fake, higher prices on every single menu item. And then still a delivery fee on top of that! I seriously had to shop around several of their restaurants and several menu combos to find one where I wasn't still paying above-menu even with the fairly "generous" coupon.

They charge a flat delivery fee, tip and an 11% "service fee". Not surprised they also have deceptive pricing.

I used the app once because I had a free delivery (that's the 1.99 waived), ending up costing a lot more than just picking it up myself.

This is US-specific. Some companies like Just Eat (UK, Canada, Mexico and others) specifically say that the price has to be the same. To avoid the situation where you use their service as a convenient menu/opening time check, and then call the restaurant directly.

Restaurants lose margin on those orders with the expectation that it's made up by more people ordering.

https://www.just-eat.co.uk/pricepromise

All of the delivery apps have much higher prices than what you can get at the place yourself. I suggest take-out or drive-thru if you're able.

The pricing was a big turn-off for me. The way it added more to the delivery cost per-item rather than being some kind of flat delivery fee, which didn't make much sense, and how it seemed like they were trying to hide the cost of delivery.

Previous poster said take out, not delivery. Some restaurants bump up take-out item price or add a surcharge, factor in no need for waiting/cleaning staff and the profit is substantial.

Protip: call in your orders, those take-out apps often take a cut that's just added to the restaurant's list price (last night I saw a $12 half-duck = $16 phone-in takeout or $25 Caviar take-out)

I know the owner of a restaurant who stopped delivery after the apps took over.

It literally wasn't worth it, and his drivers all switched over. He tried to find other folks to deliver, but, well, delivery folks aren't exactly known for being long-term employees and most of them deliver for the apps.

I still don't understand what a multinational adds to local pizza delivery. Prices went up, pizza doesn't taste any better or get here faster, and my local restaurant makes less. Do not want.

Your local restaurant might make less (I'm not sure I buy that), but the delivery driver likely makes more per hour.

If it was a net loss for everyone except GrubHub or Uber, it wouldn't exist.

> Your local restaurant might make less (I'm not sure I buy that), but the delivery driver likely makes more per hour.

I don't know what Uber pays their drivers, but I happen to know the place in question pays a good wage, comparably. I seriously doubt it driving Uber beats it.

>If it was a net loss for everyone except GrubHub or Uber, it wouldn't exist.

And yet, here we are. Econ 101 only takes you so far; why do you choose to ignore the other pressures? Once the econ brain worms take hold, people stop thinking.

You say "and yet, here we are" as if you've proven something, when you have no evidence to back up your statement and rely on passive aggressive pseudo-insults to imply that I don't know what I'm talking about.

I don't know what I'm talking about.

And where's your evidence that restaurants are profiting off of Uber Eats / GrubHub / Door Dash / whatever? Restaurants are suing to be removed from these services. Presumably it's not profitable for the restaurant.

Let's not forget that in most states these "gig" jobs hire people as contractors who are then ineligible for unemployment and social security and are not guaranteed a minimum wage. Restaurants typically hire folks as employees.

So Econ 101 asks: If the drivers were better paid by the restaurant, why did they switch to delivery apps?

Insufficient knowledge of tax law leading to an incorrect assignment of value to each position.

Insufficient knowledge of the wear and tear on ones car.

Desire to "work for themselves" (despite the fact it really isn't).

TL;DR actors in an economic system are often not fully informed.

> Insufficient knowledge

and whenever there's a knowledge gap, the "market" exploits it for arbitrage. But eventually (which may be a long time), this exploit would stop working as more people try to exploit it causing the profits from it to go down, or the lack of knowledge for which this exploits exist starts to disappear.

There's no rule to say that the market is super efficient at all times - just that it tends towards efficiency.

We can and should regulate the "market" when they exploit ignorance of our fellow beings, regardless to the degree of efficiency you purport it has.

Why is "market" in quotes, do you mean it ironically or are you quoting another comment?

Seriously, though - we do. But regulations take time to catch up. As they should.

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