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Comment by watertom | Hacker News Reader

Maybe the right answer is to not use anything that is extracted and refined, including sugar.

It is. Everyone knows that the real solution to all these health problems is “eat right and exercise”, but there’s clearly a huge market of people looking for a “magic pill” to solve their problems instead of doing that.

Snake oil has been around as long as humanity itself, so you might as well do some studies on it since so many people will be using it.

That is true for so many diseases, like anything related to obesity, diet, exercise and smoking. Doctors are too ready to prescribe pills instead of an exercise regimen or diet.

I wonder if doing studies on specific exercise regimes and diets would give doctors more confidence to prescribe them as cures. The problem is there is so much less money to be made for a certain industry.

There's that, and there's also compliance - if your doctor tells you you should become a vegan ultramarathoner, chances are you will probably not comply; if they tell you to take two pills every morning, you may still not, but the chances are at least better (even if the improvement is also less significant).

Doctors (in the US) run a business, and you’re not likely to get repeat customers if you tell them they need to lose weight, because they will take it personally and go find someone else who will prescribe a magic pill. Many doctors might mention it offhand, but if they really harp on it they will lose the patient to someone else.

It’s not a good situation, but it is the reality.

Exercise part of that solution is much more expensive than almost any pills (if they'd exist). 2h exercise a week at Valley tech salaries ($150/h) might cost you ~$15000 in time per year.

Another way to look at it is in 40 years it will consume two entire years of working full-time.

And that does not include cost to go to gym like transportation time, change of clothes, etc

There are so many things wrong with this perspective I’m not sure where to start. Overall it sounds very much like the climate change deniers’ arguments — who cares if we all die, as long as we make some money beforehand.

You can not compare Si Valley salaries to anything, since they are irrelevant. The salary may be high, but so is the cost of living there, so it’s basically a wash. And Si Valley is not the center of the world, so comparisons to the relatively few people who live there are meaningless.

Who cares if it consumes 2 years working time if you die 10 years earlier than you would have. Also exercise gives you many health benefits, including cognitive function, so you will be more healthy and more productive when you actually are working.

Cost to go to the gym?! You can exercise at literally 0 cost. Do some push ups, go outside for a run, etc.

> Who cares if it consumes 2 years working time if you die 10 years earlier than you would have.

Your 10 years number is significantly overblown. First result in Google is:

> they found that those who did 75 minutes of moderate-intensity activity weekly lived 1.8 years longer, on average, compared with people who did no physical activity

If you believe that, it puts it into 1.25 (no exercise) vs 1.8 years, which still does not include any preparations.

Death is an awful yardstick to measure anything other than truly fatal conditions. Exercise can be the difference between spending 50 years with major health problems, joint and back pain, diabetes, etc vs spending them pain free and being able to enjoy life.

this is all positively ridiculous.

Do you calculate all your other hobbies like this? You probably have "spent" millions playing video games

Perhaps to some people it might be ridiculous.

This, however, is not applicable to hobbies. Hobbies are what one tries to save time for. If for you gym is a hobby, you should not be doing the above calculation.

This one easy trick will save you $150! Just stay up an hour after bedtime ;)

I got in the habit of doing this kind of calculation early in my career before realising it is a) pointless unless someone will actually pay you that money if you instead do work, and b) still not a healthy way to think anyway in many cases where a) is true, due to life's necessities.

It might be "cheaper" to pay a kid to mow the lawn but sometimes I find it relaxing.

Exercise can be done without gym or special equipment. Healthy food does not mean Vegan-gluten free-paleo-ethically grown, it means balanced eating and minimally processed, the only extra thing it costs is convenience.

I like sweet things in my coffee. I also like not being overweight. Hence, sucralose in my coffee and 1000mg daily of metformin (taken for life extension purposes, second order effect is lowering blood sugar level). The right answer need not be "abstain from what you enjoy" if we can hack together a solution from diet and engineered compounds.

Sugar in your coffee ain't gonna make you overweight.

Have real sugar, don't take sketchy drugs, live a generally healthy balanced life.

Metformin is a pretty serious drug and that is a high dose. It's one thing to use it for off-label use like PCOS, but I would be very cautious for a more nebulous use.

Metformin is fairly safe and toxicity doesn't occur until you reach doses that are many, many times higher than therapeutic doses [1] [2]. Not a doctor, not your doctor, talk to your GP before starting such a regimen (especially for healthy kidney and liver function). My prescription was a 3 minute convo after my annual physical ("its safe, my kidneys and liver are working, I want to live longer [3] [4], and I will sign a waiver I won't hold you liable if necessary"), and I would've just ordered it online if my doctor said no.

[1] https://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/35/4/731

[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5934269/

[3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25041462

[4] https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02432287

What does metformin do for therapeutic purposes? wiki doesn't allude to much besides diabetes treatment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metformin

Look under the Research section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metformin#Research

It's the last entry. Relevant links:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4613459/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S156816371...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28802803-metformin-reduces-a...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5943638/

thanks I missed that section!

Basically, the TLDR is that it makes the insulin your body produces work better.

The nice thing about it is that it can't drive your blood sugar low.

Did you have diarrhea when you started Metformin?

None. Some people do, it is a documented side effect.

Not just diarrhea but this horrible greasy concoction that required a shower...

Metformin could be sold as an ultra laxative for some folks...

> Metformin is a pretty serious drug and that is a high dose.

According to a former endocrinologist of mine, 1000mg daily is the lowest effective dose. 500mg pills are the lowest dose available. What is your source for 1000mg being a "high dose"?

For diabetes or PCOS, sure.

What is the effective dose for general life extension?

If you reduce the amount of sweetener slowly, you will likely eventually get used to just drinking coffee black.

I've suggested this to 5 different people over the course of my life and it worked for 100% of them.

Feel free to ignore this suggestion, but I can't see any downsides ;-) Worst case scenario is you're still drinking the same amount of sweetener a few months from now

I like smoking a pack of cigarettes a day and eating candy bars - I'll just switch to vaping and granola bars so I can still do what I enjoy.

Can't tell if /s. Life is meant to be lived. Make healthier choices, but still enjoy. Otherwise, what's the point?

Yes, being healthy is enjoyable. Sometimes protecting ones health means not doing those things that provide superficial, temporary feelings of joy (junk food, artificial sweeteners that could lead to cancer and other health issues, smoking, etc.) that are in fact bad for our health and likely to reduce long term joy.

You can do just about anything in moderation and it won't be bad for you, short or long term. For example, having a cigarette or two a week over a few beers with some friends. Completely abstaining from superficial, temporary feelings of joy can be detrimental to some people when they finally do give into temptation.

  Life is meant to be lived.

A tautology at best, but more likely empty rhetoric.

  Make healthier choices, but still enjoy.

This assumes healthy choices cannot produce enjoyment.

  Otherwise, what's the point?

In our modern times, it seems to me, the point of life is whatever you make of it. I'm getting the impression that the point of your life is to experience as much pleasure as possible, i.e.: hedonism. This is a perfectly valid approach to one's life, but I wouldn't assume that others are getting less enjoyment out of their existence simply because they choose to impose constraints on the pleasures they pursue.

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