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Comment by txcwpalpha | Hacker News Reader

In regards to the commute, you're probably right. But you live in a bubble if you think those most workers see nights out with their coworkers as "forced". After-work happy hours are the absolute highlight of the week/month for most people I know that work in banking, consulting, sales, education, etc. Many of them will even voluntarily meet up outside of work to spend more time together.

Many people, especially those in non-tech industries, aren't so introverted as most SWEs, and are actually friends with their coworkers and love the opportunity to socialize throughout the day while at work. Most everyone I know that works outside of tech would dread the thought of having to spend every day alone at home without people to chat with in the break room. Just because you apparently have such a negative attitude towards your coworkers does not mean that most others do.

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That's until you reach a certain point in your life (baby, sponse) or the staff changes or teams structure.

We've all been there. The strongest bonds were made at my first few companies. Once you leave and are no longer friends hanging out you'll probably realize they are not true friends. But those times were great.

Besides we in tech need to go home to work on our side project.

> That's until you reach a certain point in your life (baby, sponse)

I’m past that point, as are all of my friends. Nothing in my comment is changed by that fact.

If anything, coworker relationships actually become more important as you get older and your other friends start to drift away. Post age 30, work is one of the best (if not the only, for most people) opportunities to socialize and make friends. I’ve noticed that people in other fields realize this and take advantage of it, but those in technical positions don’t, and many techies seem to even actively despise that aspect.

We are being treated as interchangeable cogwheels. At certain point you do start to despise the social aspects of work, yes.

Plus, I've had several people -- all the way to the CEO -- assure me how much I am appreciated and even looked at as a superhuman, yet 2 months later boom, we have to lay you off.

Defense mechanism or not, it's pretty normal to not mix personal and work lives and you pretending it's not dysfunctional to have friends at work is actually a bit worrying. You just got lucky, mate. That's cool and I am happy for you. But you should recognise it should absolutely not be the normal state of affairs.

No, I’m sorry that your situation is the way it is, but the dysfunctional mindset here is the one that thinks that making friends is not normal. If you really think the way that your post describes, you should find a new job ASAP because it is absolutely not healthy to view such a large portion of your life that way.

Being laid off has nothing to do with friendship. As your post even says, you should separate personal from business. I know several people who were separated from places of work and still maintain strong bonds with their now-former coworkers. I personally left my company of 5 years on not-so-great terms and yet several of the people in my wedding party are coworkers from that job. Work is a great place to begin friendships, and just because you no longer work at the same company does not mean your friendship has to end. And that’s the way it should be.

Well, I don't think we disagree. I know that friendships can start at work and I'm okay with that. I was mostly saying that it shouldn't be the norm because mixing work and personal life can lead to pretty nasty problems.

I too have a few pleasant acquaintances that are former co-workers, by the way.

Your original comment states that it is “dysfunctional to have friends at work”. We absolutely disagree.

Seems like we do then. In my eyes it's something that shouldn't be encouraged but also shouldn't be resisted if it happens naturally.

I've observed a lot of Stockholm syndrome in people in offices and that made me believe many are forcing relationships at work so at to make their workplace more tolerable. I could be wrong though.

Yeah... it's called being polite and sociable

Let's not conflate being professional (which includes being polite) with actually making friends in the office. Very different things.

Right, that's why I included being 'sociable' as well!

Ah well, at this point I believe I made the wrong impression. I am actually quite an ongoing guy and easily bond with people.

HOWEVER, when in a work setting I prefer to grab the problem at hand by the horns and start wrestling it. I like small talk -- maybe even too much! -- and that's exactly why I gradually learned to deflect most such attempts by colleagues so as not to be in an awkward position later after I have bonded with 10+ people but got zero work done. :D

You know?

No, I don't know. I don't have trouble navigating being personable to my coworkers and getting work done. In fact, it's kind of hard to imagine how being personable gets in the way of productivity, when I'd imagine the opposite to be true - that is to say a lack of personableness amongst co-workers in an office would lead to inefficiencies. I'm not sure how being personable, to you, means bonding to the extent that nothing got done.

Sigh, not one joke gets past you.

Thanks for the discussion.

I've seen being too personable get in the way of productivity.

- The employee who spends the day having extra long visits around the office.

- The employee who joins every social event team possible so much they are never doing their core role

- The helpful senior dev who spends all day teaching a junior only to avoid the bug queue and push their work to other seniors

- The company meeting where everyone listens as Sally is given an above and beyond reward for their work on a project everyone else did but Sally. Sally is very personable with the CEO

Let's just get our work done.

> Plus, I've had several people -- all the way to the CEO -- assure me how much I am appreciated and even looked at as a superhuman, yet 2 months later boom, we have to lay you off.

It most likely wasn't their choice. You can't really have that affect your friendships.

Coworkers are not your friends. If they are, I think it's unhealthy because it mean you have sentimental bound with the company you work for. That mix badly with business (because the relationship you have with your company is a business one).

If an other company offer XX% more than your current company but you stay for your "friends" you could have a big disappointment in the future.

I've group friends at work and we have a whatsapp group where we talk at least a few times a week. Three people in our group of 6 left for new jobs this past year and we're still in contact. One guy moved to Michigan for a job last June. He came back to NY just to visit us and we organized a few dinners and get togethers during his stay. It's not really a farfetched idea to love the people you work with every day.

I would have hard time calling those kind of people my friend by my definition of friendship. How much time do you see those people IRL ? Online relationship meaning nothing to me. The work place force relation between people. I work with a guy I hate for almost 2 years. You are not my friend because I m forced to work with you. You are my friend if you are willing to make a sacrifice for me the same way I would for you.

If changing employers is what breaks the friendship, then it wasn't a very good friendship to begin with.

I really don't see the issue in socialising with colleagues and potentially becoming friends.

I personally think this would be a very difficult mindset to have in regards to an environment I spend so much of my time in. Just because you have a financial business relationship with your employer does not mean you can’t have friendships with other people that also have business relationships with your employer. It would be unhealthy to not have some type of friendship with people you spend so much time with.

The majority of my closest friends (and their closest friends) are people that started from work relationships and we have had no problem leaving those companies when the time came, and we have maintained our friendships. It’s not any different than any other friendship where people sometimes move or start new hobbies.

That said, if someone does choose to stay at a specific company because they have friends there... so what? Having a strong social circle and support network is, in many cases, a better reason to work at a company than a higher paycheck.

I definitely have work friends, but it's disingenuous to call most peoples relationship with their boss just a "financial relationship".

In the US your healthcare and well-being are pretty much dependent on your job. And make no mistake, this is 2020, where your org will fire you for any reason so long as it makes sense to an MBA. As your sole source of income and healthcare they wield immense power in your life, and any interactions you have with coworkers or other work-related engagements are going to revolve around that power disparity in some way. Sure there are freelancers and well paid devs who can come and go as they please, but those are a tiny minority compared to all of those who are thusly constrained.

Point is, don't make work your social life cuz when they fire your ass you're going to lose your support network AND your meal ticket.

Two thoughts:

1) This is a self fulfilling prophecy. It's no secret that when it comes time to let people go (or time to promote), managers (even the MBA boogeymen) will stick their neck out for people they like more than for people they do not know. If you're continuously being dropped like a hot rock by your employers and you don't think it's because of performance reasons, perhaps you should reconsider your work relationship habits.

2) What's with the notion that you "lose your support network" just because you get fired? There is no reason that you should stop being friends with people just because you lose your job, even if those friendships stemmed from your workplace. I understand that it may be more difficult to find the time to socialize with them if you are not at work with them (which is exactly why it's worth it to go to those "forced beer nights" and build a relationship outside the context of work), but that doesn't mean you should stop putting in the effort and cut ties entirely.

Even if you are entirely career focused, getting fired is a situation in which you should actually lean heavier on your support network, especially coworker friends, as they are the ones that most likely can do the most to help you find a replacement job.

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