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Comment by avalys | Hacker News Reader

Article is written by someone who does not own a truck or SUV and consists mainly of him sneering in superiority at those who do.

Aaron Gordon, whoever you are: mind your own damn business.

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I support Aaron Gordon's right to express his opinions, which I happen to share. I also assert that people who buy and drive gratuitously huge trucks are polluting the atmosphere, which affects me and my family and which gives me a right to weigh in on this. [Note: I did not downvote you - that was other people.]

Polluting the atmosphere, sure, but don't forget that their masses and geometries also put other road users in direct mortal danger to a degree that reasonably sized cars don't.

It's almost funny how so many large SUV and truck owners actively project the attitude their vehicular choices imply: "I don't give a shit about anybody but myself."

In addition to not driving a truck did you also give up meat which is a far bigger harm to the environment?

As a matter of fact I have given up eating beef (except for certain special occasions involving traditional family foods) and drinking cow's milk for this very reason. I also restrict my intake of pork, which is the next most environmentally-damaging food animal. I'm definitely not a vegetarian, more like a flexitarian.

> except for certain special occasions involving traditional family foods

Nice, we are trying to get there. Down to kike once or twice a month for red meat. Rest is vegetarian and chicken maybe twice a week.

Yep, we gotta do what we can starting with where we're at.

Unless your job requires you to haul stuff around on a regular basis what use is a truck? For the exceedingly rare cases where a person not in those trades does need to haul furniture or building supplies, rentals are exceedingly cheap from numerous places.

You are ignoring a very prominent aspect of the American psyche: aspiration. It’s the reason why people who do nothing more than email and Facebook buy MacBook Pros. It’s the reason why suburban dads have garages full of tools. And it’s the reason that Americans drive more car than they need: they want to need more.

Vehicle choices aren't made based on utility outside the jobs you suggest. See also motorcycles.

That's why I said need, vanishingly few people need a motorcycle too but at least they're more fuel efficient then cars and take up less space.

Not if you ride in a group. One or two people on one motorcycle? Sure, that's efficient. Two motorcycles, six motorcycles, etc, in a group ride? Forget it.

> rentals are exceedingly cheap from numerous places

It is $100+/day out the door around here. Where are you where it is "exceedingly cheap" and what is your definition of that?

$150/day for, maybe, one or two days a year is far cheaper than buying a $25-50K pickup, maintaining it, gassing it and dealing with the stress of driving a huge vehicle-- all so you can haul stuff, "if necessary".

They're status symbols like Porsche's or Tesla's, but for a different demographic, one that gets defensive about admitting they just want to drive a truck because it makes them feel good.

Most people aren't looking at pickups relative to owning no vehicle at all. Which is to say they aren't spending a $25K premium for one. They're looking at the cost/utility benefit relative to other new vehicles with similar features. For example a large trunk SUV Vs. a Crew Cab-style pickup. The cost increase could be <$3K.

Cheap pickups definitely aren't a status simple. The pickup market ranges from $100K+ all the way down to $25K or less. Some are status symbols, some aren't, but the cheap ones definitely aren't.

It's accruing cost year round though from the reduced MPG but even if we don't factor in daily fuel consumption that $3k cost increase covers 20 solid days renting a truck vs buying one. The math rarely works especially with so many places offering home delivery for large furniture. The number of times a person really needs a truck vs it being more convenient than a car are pretty slim.

Purchase prices of vehicles are increasing, driven in no small part by the higher cost of larger vehicles (trucks and SUVs in particular). A truck or SUV simply costs more than a car, especially if you're buying used (where trucks hold their value longer for essentially no reason except desirability).

Partially driven by the higher costs of purchasing trucks and SUVs, the average American owes more money in car loans with longer terms than before.

Cheap pickups aren't a status symbol, but look around and see how many people are actually driving cheap pickups. The number of people out there driving the newest, largest, most expensive truck (and never using the bed for anything 80% of the time) is shocking.

I can rent a truck from Lowes for $89 all day or $20 for 90 minutes + $5/15 min after that. Uhaul even in NY, NY charges $20 for the rental then $2/mile for local use, where I live it's only $.60/mile plus gas. All of those are very cheap compared to the reduced fuel efficiency and additional cost of actually owning my own truck to move things the few times a year I actually need them. (Which is actually only really once every few year or less since my house is mostly setup now and I don't do woodworking projects)

Where are you?

A U-haul truck starts at $20/day + $1/mile.[1] Where are you getting $100+/day from?

Not to mention the difference in operating costs between a truck and a more modest hatchback could easily by $100/month. How often is someone hauling something that can't fit in a U-haul truck?

1. https://www.uhaul.com/Reservations/RatesTrucks/

> Where are you getting $100+/day from?

After I rented a truck for a day, I handed them $100+. I rented from the cheapest local place. Home Depot is $39/4 hours + tax for comparison. Sounds like you're reading some advert, have never actually tried to rent the truck, and legitimately expect to pay just $20/day. Good luck with that.

$20/day would be a dream come true around here, I paid more than that in tax and fees alone.

Please read my entire post. It's $20/day + $1/mile. Not literally $20. And you have to refill gas.

> Sounds like you're reading some advert, have never actually tried to rent the truck, and legitimately expect to pay just $20/day

I have rented from U-haul in the past. No special ads or deals or anything. I just walked into the store and took what they had. It sounds like you got ripped off by Home Depot. The last time I moved my entire apartment with all my belongings and furniture, I rented a big moving truck and spent like $70 total.

Smaller vehicles do have "superior" gas mileage, which sadly many Americans don't seem to care about. Also, trucks and SUVs are simply not safe to others, especially to cyclists and pedestrians. This is more serious issue than people acknowledge.

Strikes me that a lot of the comments, not to mention the article itself, seem to approaching the problem from the perspective of what other people should think and how they should behave. As if certain choices automatically make you and superior human.

I think perhaps avalys could have expressed it more politely, but at least he was succinct. That article is very judgemental. I'm sure I could invent lots and lots of ways anybody could be potentially annoying or impacting me and my family. I'm not going to use that as an excuse to claim some assumed moral high ground. People absolutely have the right to buy and drive what they want. The overwhelming popularity and price of pickups, even at a large size, is testament that it is working for them and is well worth it to a lot of people.

I'd prefer to read the comments pro or con that talk about one's personal experience with their automotive choices, rather than finger-waging at and judging those they don't agree with.

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