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> The general view of police and government as your "friendly helper" as opposed to enemies.

The US has a much more negative and adversarial view of govt in general, but in polls a large majority has a much more favorable view of cops versus other govt agencies. Certainly it's a terrible generalization to say americans view cops as enemies.

One import factor here is where specifically you live. Police in the US are local systems which totally differ based on local laws and culture. In a place like Los Angeles County, with its high crime problems, cops are a lot more jaded and defensive. Meanwhile in the small beach cities in LA, the cops are very helpful and mellow.

> One import factor here is where specifically you live. Police in the US are local systems which totally differ based on local laws and culture. In a place like Los Angeles County, with its high crime problems, cops are a lot more jaded and defensive. Meanwhile in the small beach cities in LA, the cops are very helpful and mellow.

This is not my understanding at all. I have a ticket that has all kinds of nonsense in a relatively low crime Overland Park, Kansas: reckless driving, bla bla bla. What I really had was a flat tire and I was stopped on the side of the road. Not that it matters because in any case the officers arrived on the scene more than ten minutes after I got the flat tire. I don't blame the officers: they can't admit it but I'm positive they have a quota to meet so they do this kind of nonsense.

It's just as terrible a generalization to use polls that don't consider a great many of the people harassed and oppressed by police forces (immigrants, PoC, incarcerated, poor neighborhoods, homeless people). Yes, people feel both ways about cops, and that lack of uniformly friendly relationship across the populace is the whole point brought up by GP.

To their exact sentiment

> The general view of police and government as your "friendly helper" as opposed to enemies

...the key phrase is "general view" and not "enemies". The general view in america is more varied, as a function of the diversity of people, experiences and opinions, for better or worse.

On the contrary a poll is about the best possible way to make generalizations. It uses random sampling to make estimates about a population. Otherwise the loudest get all the attention, certainly a big issue when it comes to cops lately.

I guess polls might miss homeless people, though there aren't enough to swing the numbers noticeably. I don't see why they'd hate cops especially.

I wonder how incarcerated people in Japan feel about cops. Have you seen ho they treat prisoners?

Homeless people would be more likely to have a negative view of cops because cops arrest them for loitering/sleeping in public/being a nuisance?

And polls might not include incarcerated people, yea. That will make a bigger difference in the US stats (0.65% of the population incarcerated, vs Japans 0.05%).

That is what we in the US call "community policing" which is how it used to be. The cultural image of a policeman used to be the overweight donut eating totally approachable "dad" type figure, look at pretty much any hollywood movie or show from the 70s or 80s.

And since 9/11 the police have gotten a lot more militaristic. But police departments all over the country are TRYING to return to the idea of community policing. It'll take a while before we get there but that's absolutely where things need to be.

That's interesting. Thinking about it a bit more, my current image comes from the fact that I never had "positive" interactions with police or government workers in the U.S. The only interactions I ever had with the police were when I did something wrong like speeding, or carrying alcohol outside.

In Japan, kids constantly have small positive interactions with the police, government workers, or other people in uniform. They may greet or bow to you on the street, help with traffic, announce trains, etc. That contributes to the image that they are approachable and want to help you. If you grow up with that, you'll have a very different image of the police.

Militarization of police began in mid-70s, mostly as a consequence of ramping up the "war on drugs". It just took a while for the old stereotype to shatter.

Yes police where more community oriented in the 70's and 80's however that was something that only WASPS got. If you were an african-american, hispanic, gay etc the police where never your friend.

I have also heard people claim that in the long term this trend towards militaristic/adversarial policing is a long term fallout of the 1960's. Bright people who wanted to help others saw the police as authoritarian supporters of the status quo, so did not join. Which over the long term shifted the culture of police forces.

Japan has a 99% conviction rate and indefinite uncharged detention happens often. Despite that people treat police amicably, and there is a trusting relationship.

That's to me a sign that there is a fundamental cultural difference in Japanese attitude, in the US stats aren't anywhere as close to as severe, yet relations/trust is much worse. Goes to show how much of a productivity and effectiveness loss lack of trust is, regardless of how justified.

>in the US stats aren't anywhere as close to as severe

Well, the US has the largest incarceration rate in the world (24% of the world's prison population for 5% of the world's population), the death penalty, and even death penalty for teenagers, plus horrible prison conditions, private prisons that are profit centers, widespread acceptance that prisoners must be "punished" (as opposed to reformed, etc), the medieval three strikes law, bail law. Plus cops routinely shooting people, and even SWAT-ization of police forces.

So I'd say it's justified that the "relations/trust" is much worse.

The Japanese conviction rate or detection could affect a much smaller amount of their population -- and it could be even because prosecutors only move on when they are close to 100% sure about a case.

There are about two ways to get a 99% conviction rate: run total kangaroo courts that only fail to convict when the defendant credibly threatens big problems if they get convicted, or just don't take cases that aren't open-and-shut to court in the first place.

And while the kangaroo court thing is maybe a bit too true to be comfortable with, I'd wager Japan errs heavily on the side of not bringing potentially contentious cases to court.

Japan is a bit of both. Prosecutors are extremely reluctant to bring cases to court if a conviction isn't guaranteed (losing a case is extremely embarrassing), and for this reason judges almost always side with them because they assume a prosecutor wouldn't bring a case against someone who is not definitely guilty.

Basically in Japan they err on the side of letting criminals roam free if it's not an open-and-shut case in front of a judge, but it sucks for the (very few) who are wrongfully convicted, because nobody will believe them. Especially because you'll never get the government to admit they wrongfully convicted someone.

It's easy to find examples for both:

https://www.vox.com/world/2015/12/13/9989250/japan-crime-con...

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2007-nov-09-fg-autop...

(although I would like to make clear -- in any large country, you will find examples of both)

I think it also helps that most cops outside the US don't err on the side of shooting people dead. Which is a direct result of proper gun control, Japanese cops aren't continuously walking around in fear of their lives.

FWIW, in plenty European countries, police officers are also treated amicably (and asked for directions, etc, much like in Japan) but there's also no 99% conviction rate. I think Japanese cops are treated with trust despite the scary conviction rate, not because of it.

If I were a cop in the US, I'd also be an aggressive dick. I'd rather rough innocent people up a bit too often than get shot because I was too easy going. It must be one of the scariest jobs in the world.

The high conviction rate seems to be because cases are dropped unless the prosecution's confidence is very high, rather than letting it go to trial.

https://youtu.be/OINAk2xl8Bc

That's a system in which the prosecution doesn't go yo court without enough evidence. Which is a good thing, IMHO. Might also mean that some reasonable cases aren't taken to court for lack of confidence on the prosecution s side. Still, largely preferable to the opposite.

The system not pushing everything tends to benefit the powerful. The other system em also tends to hurt the weak. One evil is still better than two, if you ask me.

Not necessarily.

In some world states, the prosecution, having taken a case to court but seeing that it is likely to lose, often drops the case. This typically coincides with the practice of judges of dropping strong hints to one side or the other that they will rule against them, and thus it might be better to drop the case.

Factoring in plea bargaining the US and Japan have roughly the same conviction rate.

Factoring in people held in US because they can't make bail, also diminished some of the "held without trial" margin. But this is fundamentally a bigger problem in Japan, as it has now embarrassed the country on the world stage due to the Ghosn case.

A state that holds people just becauss it doesn't like them, rather than due to evidence of breaking its laws, relegates them to the same league as the North Koreas of the world. Profoundly embarrassing for a first world country and a major step backwards in reputation.

Sure? I mean evidently Ghosn was a high flight risk. And whether or not his conduct was illegal or not is still not decided. For once a powerful person was close to be held for trial over stuff that was sketchy enough to be prosecuted. In a democracy. And still some people are complaining about it. Compare the Ghosn case to other scandals, like the VW emissions scandal. In the VW case it was only lower ranking managers who got charged and convicted. While the higher ups are still free and German investigators, while doing their job from what I can tell, still managed to keep VWs godfather, Ferdinand Piech, out of the story.

But who won? Even assuming Ghosn committed a crime, they ended up looking like the crooks.

And one man succeeding in shady dealings hurts few. But the state succeeding in boundless detention puts everyone in peril. He may have some power, but there is no more powerful an entity than the state.

There's a basic rule of war: slow slow, fast fast. You slowly and quietly gather your forces and telegraph nothing, and when the moment comes, you unleash it all at once and unrelentingly. That's what they should've done. Not made a move until they had the evidence to put him away.

The fact they couldn't do crap for months on end just broadcasts to the world: "we don't actually have any evidence to convict him on".

Nothing's sacred in this world, not even habeas corpus, because no one can be arsed reading history -- it was never a matter of anyone forgetting it.

I'm not Japanese, but I've seen this Japanese person explaining the situation informally but thoroughly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OINAk2xl8Bc

The premise is, yes 99% percent is a measured rate but also has no utility in a discussion if the other parts of the big picture is ignored.

I agree with you that it's easy to return things in Japan.

I also think there is a slight flip-side, at least in the city. There are so many people crammed together that there is a sense of always being watched, doubly so if you are a minority.

I remember picking up a 100yen coin (about 1USD) in a train station. Normally I would just put it in my pocket and think "lucky me" but I was keenly aware of the station worker watching me from the ticket office. I walked over to the worker and handed him the coin saying it was lost property.

I do sometimes wonder what happened to that 100yen.

Knowing how bureaucracy in Japan works, I bet it's still there buried in station documents altogether with pile of papers stating when it was found, who passed it to who and when, probably detailed description with meticulous description of all dents on the coin.

As someone with similar experience, I disagree completely. It lies deeply in Japanese culture and is thaught since early days. Proiximity to the police station has nothing to do with it.

If anything, they will leave things on the street if there is no koban near by. Every single kid knows that, if you see some unattended property, the safest option is to leave it be. If it's a commodity then you can return it and probably should. Everything else you don't touch (and by any circumstances you don't touch bicycles!)

I don't remember the thread, but there was a story here on HN about the guy who tried to take and return the bike to the police station. He was, to his own surprise, questioned hardly about why did he do that and what was he thinking. They wanted to put him in detention, too.

I do agree about police helpers, though. I am not living in Japan anymore and, boy, I am missing that.

The Japanese police are not always the friendly helper though, especially when something not in their daily routine happens.

They're insanely rigid, almost always put arrested people in detention for maximum of 23 days even if they know the people are innocent, and they have a 99% conviction rate.

After living here for a couple of years, I feel that this is also closely linked to the highly homogeneous culture, where people are generally very friendly and kind to those who share the same origin, and can become unconsciously biased against people or things out of the "normal" world.

> They're insanely rigid

Like any other organizations and most Japanese. Anything out of the book is "impossible", the subset of rules that must be followed are strictly enforced and anything unplanned needs 12 people "hummm-ing" for hours to take an obvious common sense decision.

I disagree. It's more due to the rigid drumming in of "these are the rules you must follow" from a young age, backed up by harsh social ostracism of those who don't follow these social rules.

Children in Japan are taught at a young age to turn in even small found items, like a single small denomination coin, to the police station.

This bakes into them the sense that "that's what you do with found items" and coupled with the fact the police will return it to them if no one collects it, bakes in a sense of trust of the police at an early age.

> - Availability.

Many years ago where [1] I was working as a designer of test equipment the head of the drafting department had a saying:

"If you make the right way the easy way people won't do things the wrong way."

He ran his department on those principles and got things done accurately and quickly.

It looks like the Japanese have the same idea.

[1] Philips Mullard semiconductor plant, Southampton, late 70s, early 80s. Such a long time ago I can no longer remember his name.

This is how police are portrayed in many older American children's books. I don't know whether it was actually that way, though, or just aspirational?

> The general view of police and government as your "friendly helper" as opposed to enemies

And you don't think that people who view the police as "enemies" tend to be less honest...

Come on, this is very far from the only example of the extremely high social capital in Japan compared to the West, especially the US. It's just absurd to pretend that it is mainly due to the number of police boxes.