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Comment by mumblemumble | Hacker News Reader

My sense is that there are really two different registers you can shoot for. Past a certain level of proficiency, they're mostly divergent, if complementary, skills.

The first is whether you speak articulately about complex topics. This one is easy to do from home; reading books, listening to podcasts, and talking with language partners on iTalki will all help get you there.

The second is informal, everyday communication. This one's definitely a struggle. Not only is it hard to pick up on your own, but I'm pretty sure that, even if you've spent some time in a region that speaks the language, there's still no great way to avoid steadily losing it if you ever leave. TV, especially sitcoms, helps, but only a little. There's just not a whole lot of overlap between the things people actually chatter about all day, and the things that make for interesting entertainment.

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> there's still no great way to avoid steadily losing it if you ever leave

That applies even to your original language. ~15 years after moving away, talking to family and friends at home feels... awkward. I can still do it easily, but honestly, sometimes I wish I could use English, even if that's not perfect either.

It's so much easier with friends who also moved out. We can switch to a more comfortable language for each thought or even mid sentence if you prefer a specific word choice.

I've been in Japan for 10+ years and only speak my mother tongue of Finnish while talking on the phone with my parents. Very little loss, doesn't feel awkward, but I sometimes forget very rarely used words.

If I have a half an hour conversation, there might be one word that a normal person should know, but that I've forgotten. Comes as a bit of a shock to me when this happens.

You've been maintaining the language by calling your parents every now and then

Author here. From my experience I completely agree with you. When I started out I figured B2 meant X% of competence in these two fields, but now I feel like especially towards the end I became increasingly more competent in the former relative to the latter. I think even getting a C2 certificate would just mean another year or two of solidifying grammar, amassing a huge vocabulary, a lot of reading, and some hundreds of hours of practice discussing such abstract topics. Not easy by any means, but relatively straightforward.

On the other hand, the latter probably can't be done at home. While it isn't necessary to be very, very strong in French, without that immersion experience I think you'll never feel "at home" among francophones until you put in the necessary hours into hanging out in French.

Despite this, having the latter is certainly very useful and allows you to get your point across in the vast majority of situations, so if it's the best you can do, it's still worth it if you really want to learn the language.

Oh gosh! That reminds me of my childhood. I spent most of my time at home reading without many friends. I would win discussions with my teachers about science, philosophy and economics, but I always seemed like a fool when I tried to talk to my peers.

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