Hacker News Reader

Comment by look_lookatme | Hacker News Reader

> Patagonia, North Face, Black Diamond and Arcteryx all began as brands that catered specifically to the needs of climbers and alpinists, but now sell primarily to yuppies.

They may sell a subset of their product to yuppies, but you can still outfit yourself for just about any outdoor pursuit with these companies and trust the gear they sell. TNF and BD tents are still high quality, TNF and BD and Patagonia jackets can be used on any trip. And Arcteryx is some of the highest quality cold weather clothing in the world. I would probably only prefer Western Mountaineering or Hilleberg to a combination of products from these 4 manufacturers. BD probably makes more money on selling headlamps to anglers and hunters than they do on yuppies buying climbing pants.

The brands are nowhere near the lowend lifestyle fashion grab-bags that Oakley, Hurley, Quiksilver or O'Neill are...

View on HN

> They may sell a subset of their product to yuppies

I think you have this backwards. They make their profit off the yuppies buying the latest product year after year. The hardcore users aren't buying new tents, jackets, snow pants, etc every year.

Hardcore users can actually burn through their gear pretty fast. A $600 gore-tex shell will last a long time so long as you aren't climbing mountains in it every weekend.

An arcteryx shell should last nearly your entire life with proper maintenance - if you’re doing an activity that would damage it you’re using the wrong gear.

Nothing you just wrote contradicts what you quoted. "They may sell a subset of their product" ... this doesn't say anything about the amount of revenue associated with "the subset". The idea is that they sell part of their line to yuppies (and whoever else wants to wear them while still within proximity to more than 5 other people) and sell a different part of their line to people who actually get out there. Yes, the revenue from the first case may greatly exceed the revenue from the second case, but that doesn't invalidate the point.

Some items wear out fast. Climbing shoes have to be replaced or at least resoled yearly.

true but those brands don't make climbing shoes

except black diamond?

And those products have high margins, but they haven't sold out their core ideals and quality in order to cater to these markets because their core business is woefully inadequate, which is the point that original commenter made.

And those yuppies may convert to hardcore outdoor users, and bring their brand loyalty with them.

If anything these companies are a pretty good example of a kind of principled capitalism, in so much as their operations are coextensive with both lifestyle stuff the commenter derides and their initial principles and commitment to quality.

And on top of that, if one thinks these are outliers, two of these companies where started by the same guy, in different times.

Petzl is interesting in its primarily an industry outfitter, but also serves some outdoors activities.

I agree. The core product lines from the major technical outdoor brands are still very high quality, and field tested up the ying yang. More conventional fashion brands try to imitate the technical outdoor brands and they fail miserably.

(Moved comment)

Reply on news.ycombinator.com