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Comment by vearwhershuh | Hacker News Reader

The issue here isn't that this guy can see and control the the vehicle without the next owner knowing. It's that the entire corporate world and government can see and control the vehicle without the next owner knowing. This is increasingly true across the board, regardless of trim level.

I was excited about Rivian as a family friendly electric vehicle. Then they decided to add Alexa (due to an investment by Amazon) and reminded me why I will likely die driving my 1980s SUV.

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They actually admit to it here: https://www.ford.com/help/privacy/

"We also share personal information with... Law Enforcement Agencies, Courts, Regulatory Agencies, and Others. We will [disclose] personal information when we believe that doing so is necessary to... comply with applicable law or respond to valid legal process, including from law enforcement or other government agencies"

That's pretty vague, and inadequate. Basically they will let the cops snoop on you if they say "please"; don't bother getting a warrant first.

Certainly your 1980s SUV is certainly the thing most likely to be the location of your death, unless you’re older than ~70.

Only if your 1980s SUV is capable of reaching speeds that might kill you.

I will simply be maimed horribly and die later in the hospital, screaming "AT LEAST MY DEATH WASN'T TRACKED BY ALEXA".

I am, on balance, comfortable with this fate.

Alexa: His death was, in fact, tracked by Alexa

I’m hearing that last sentence in the voice of the narrator from arrested development.

Ron Howard! Director of A Beautiful Mind, Apollo 13, Willow, etc., star of Happy Days, father of Bryce Dallas Howard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70nqLIj6l_M

And not to forget Opie from the Andy Griffith show

I wish that voice was an option on echo.

The same could be said of any 2020 SUV. Cars are dangerous.

New cars are way safer than the ones from the 1980s, though. In just a risk-minimization strategy I prefer a new car with Alexa over a forty year old car without.

The privacy risk is low with the new one, but the death risk is high with the old one.

Rolled my car and I just crawled out of the wreck and walked away with a mild concussion.

> The privacy risk is low with the new one

Why do you say that? The new cars are constantly sending telemetry to the mothership.

Sorry, using the "risk = probability times damage" meaning here. It doesn't matter so much how much telemetry is sent until that leads to: a) compromising my privacy b) that breach leading to damage to me. I like to threat model things like this, rather than going on a binary scale of threatened/not-threatened and I think there is no threat model that leads to me needing to worry. Of course, if you have concrete information that I am in danger, I will pay you for it.

I rate that as astronomically unlikely, especially since my SSN is out there and I haven't been identity thefted yet despite making half a million a year and having more credit cards than I can keep track of.

I understand. I was just curious because telemetry is an automatic privacy intrusion. The only question is whether or not it exceeds your comfort level. In your case, it does not. That's fair.

Ah, right. I don't see an automated system seeing things about me as an intrusion until it has implications about me. For instance, I imagine if someone dev-nulled all telemetry but still had it running you'd consider it a privacy risk because your private data was exfiltrated but I wouldn't because no action was taken against me on private information.

> I imagine if someone dev-nulled all telemetry but still had it running you'd consider it a privacy risk because your private data was exfiltrated

Yes, this is my perspective. There are two aspects to privacy.

The first is data collection. When data is collected about me or my use of my machines, that is a privacy intrusion regardless of what is done with that data post-collection.

The second is what is done with the data post-collection. In my view, the impact of this is secondary -- how the data is handled post-collection will inform whether or not I'm willing to give consent for its collection in the first place.

You must not be a journalist.

Also, the best way to reduce risk for you would be to let someone else drive.

It takes a LOT to roll a street car these days, holy hell.

Well, if you somehow manage to de-beed a tire it's pretty easy. Maybe he was running from the cops. :)

> Also, the best way to reduce risk for you would be to let someone else drive.

Hahaha, solid bants. I enjoyed that. But given that the Lyft pass is no longer available, looks like I've got to risk my life.

And of course I'm not a journalist, I do mostly productive work.

Journalists (the few real ones who remain) who enable whistleblowers and get killed for doing so aren't doing productive work?

Since you're a fan of the banter - fuck you!

My Uncle drove an 80s Bronco until he died. "They see me coming, they get the fuck out of my way." He wasn't wrong.

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