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Comment by nordsieck | Hacker News Reader

The elephant in the room that went unmentioned by the article is scammers. Moving companies are notorious for holding your belongings hostage once they're all packed up and "renegotiating" their fee.

If someone could solve that problem - not just not being a scammer, but getting people to believe that you're not a scammer - I think they'd take over the industry.

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I'm surprised that's a thing. IANAL but I naively think that if they pulled that on me I would say we had an oral agreement which is legally just as binding as a written one. If they don't honor it, then they can unload my stuff and remunerate me for the costs that arise in terms of my time and money for finding someone else.

At which point they laugh at your tough guy act, decline, and welcome you to call the cops. When the cops arrive, they say your oral agreement was for twice what it was, and on top of that they demand that you get your stuff off their truck and renumerate them for the costs that arise in terms of their time and money for canceling the agreement they claim you had.

Oral agreements may be legally binding, but it's pretty hard to prove they exist, or what the terms are.

they go like hahaha sue me, and meanwhile we will hold on to your things until the courts have decided

Then I'd buy replacements for all the things they keep, then send them the invoice. I've been wanting a new laptop for a while.

All your stuff will mysteriously burn in a fire. Since you have next to no list of what you actually gave them, the value of each object, the proof of payment etc, you will essentially get 5% of the actual value of what you lost after month of waiting for the insurance to act.

But hey, you bought a new laptop - and you have the insurance money to pay for it.

Most people cannot afford to just go out and replace everything they own.

In which country is an oral agreement legally just as binding as a written one? In Germany oral agreements mean diddly squat, only what's written down and signed holds weight in court. That's why the country is still big on still using fax and snail mail for formal agreements.

I'm from Austria. I'd be surprised if it were different in Germany. Again, I'm not a lawyer, but the way I've been told (by my brother, who is a lawyer) is that written and oral are equally binding. (I'd take it this is especially so for consumers.) Sure, you'll have a hard time proving agreement if there's no written record. But I do not think the law requires written agreement. If the mover says "I'll do it for 5k" and you say yes, then that is binding.

Funny, I lived in Austria before and I had loads of shady encounters with small and large service providers agreeing something on the phone and then not honoring that because "I don't know who you spoke to yesterday but if it's not in writing we can't honor it".

Car services are notorious for this behavior where they quote you a price on the phone and after they have your car "hostage", invoice you a much higher price. Also phone companies/ISPs where sales reps would promise you some discounts on the phone or in person if you sign up today and when your first invoice arrives you have to pay everything in full with no discounts.

Seems to be the norm the norm in that country and not sure how you'd be able to argue against that in court with just words and no written proof of the contrary. God I hate Google for disabling the call recording API since Android 9.

Since then, I always ask them to send me "what we just agreed on the phone" in writing via e-mail. If they refuse, I know there's a high chance they won't honor it later.

Please let me know if I'm wrong.

honestly I'm surprised.. the reason for written agreement is that oral agreements are vapor

In Germany an agreement is binding regardless of whether it’s given written or verbal. In practice, an oral agreement is harder to prove of course, especially when it comes to the details of it. But that is still a separate issue.

In Sweden. The problem is of course that it usually very hard to prove what is agreed. But if one part have a recording, that is very much enough. As is an email trail.

Switzerland.

That sounds like something mafia guys would do in some tv show. I'm not surprised it happens, but I'm curious where this kind of behavior is still tolerated.

Maybe this is only an issue with small time movers? I've moved a few times but have always used larger companies who I was referred to by family/friends and who provided written quotes. Overall they were all trustworthy.

That's where you call the police, right?

Written quotations are critical for this.

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