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Would you please just stop posting generalized pejoratives about $NATION and $PEOPLE? In your case it's America and Americans, but it doesn't matter which particular nation someone has an issue with—it inevitably leads to increasingly low-quality and nasty internet discussion, which is just what we don't want here.
I know you're not doing this intentionally, but it's always many times more obvious to readers than it is to the commenter. Multiply the possible effects of such a comment by 100 and you'll get a more accurate picture of how this sounds.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22219018.
I personally found is fascinating that a person from the USSR (famous for propaganda) had the insight and self awareness to say they're very aware that every country is a propaganda machine, though while I was in the US for 5 months last year I met many people who had no idea they're in one too.
I would say the same is true in Australia, and Canada (the other countries I've lived in)
At no point was I trying to say America is crap (like many people assumed) and I tried to say that on two separate occasions, but all the other comments just jumped back to "American isn't as bad as china" (which is unrelated to my insight above).
But yes, I'll stop.
"You're in a propaganda machine" is one hop from "Wake up sheeple". That's a cliché of internet fulmination and never works. Posting like this is pushing a button that generates angry responses. It's your responsibility not to push the button. (Not that that's always easy, since we usually do it inadvertently.)
"You're in a propaganda machine" is one hop from "Wake up sheeple". That's a cliché of internet fulmination because it never works. Posting like this is pushing a button that generates angry responses. It's your responsibility not to push the button. (Not that that's always easy, since we usually do it inadvertently.)
But when it's true, we need to have the perspective to realize that, just like the other commentor from the USSR. Just because it pushes people's buttons doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about it - especially when it's true.
I'm originally from Australia, and yes, 100% without a doubt it is a propaganda machine. It does annoy me, and that's a good thing because it means I'm motivated to do something about changing it.
We can't simply not talk about things that might push people's buttons. Then we'd be just always talking about surface stuff, and never getting to the heart of anything, and - even worse - we'd never improve anything.
But sure, I'll stop. I'll stick to easy topics on HN. Sorry to use up your precious time again.
I'm pretty sure that rayiner's comment exists mirrored on a random Chinese forum. Someone being offended by a comparison of China and US (implying China is better). We're all the same.
Wondering aloud if the Soviet system might not be better "because at least people were aware of it" is shocking and cruel.
US for almost all practical purpose for most of its existence is an extended Britain. And for the remaining part the best result of European colonialism. The US is basically Europe. There are now differences of course, but the bigger story is this.
By and large Russia and China are the result of revolutions, that were attained in the climate of what was then the dominant political and economic narrative of the time.
The fact that countries like China and Russia have done whatever they have done what it took Europe and its colonies centuries to do is in itself a huge proof of success, if you want to measure it that way.
“manfactured consent” is top-down, elite-driven propaganda that the general citizenry isn't any more complicit in than is the case with authoritarian propaganda.
It's different than authoritarian propaganda in that it isn't centrally directed by the state, per se, (on the other hand since it is elite-directed by the same elites to whom the state apparatua is subservient, that difference is less significant than it might appear at first.)
It's also different in that while there is a significant degree of commonality, the elites that it serves have competing interests which results in diversity and conflicts in the propaganda.
I'm saying it's interesting to realize that everyone on all sides are fed propaganda. As 'siracusa23' points out, he is very aware that both Americans and Soviets continue to be fed propaganda.
What I said was that today, the vast majority of Americans have no idea they are constantly being fed propaganda, and they openly take offence if you say as much.
In contrast, people in countries like China and the old USSR are empowered only to learn of and share state-approved knowledge, in a state-approved manner. Stepping too far outside these boundaries often leads to imprisonment or worse.
The repercussions were social mostly, your boss would not promote you anymore, your neighbours would avoid you. Only in cases of high-treason, such as Assange from WikiLeaks, you would get "imprisonment or worse". Think to how PC culture works in the US. If you're misoginistic, your friends will start avoiding you, you might even get fired.
And no, people did not learn through state-approved knowledge, we had conspiracy theories, we had friends, uncles and friends having friends working inside the government.
So, "high-treason" must have included religious offenses, attempting to leave the USSR, independent journalism, cultural and literary nonconformism, activism of any almost any kind, and any other sort of activity deemed undesirable to the state. Is that right?
> And no, people did not learn through state-approved knowledge, we had conspiracy theories, we had friends, uncles and friends having friends working inside the government.
Conspiracy theories and rumors are not comparable to the robust freedom of expression we enjoy in the West -- a freedom that we take advantage of on this very forum, where we are free to share information and criticize our Western governments however we please, anonymously or not.
If you're interested in learning about the USSR's treatment of people who spoke against the state, the accounts of the dissidents themselves makes excellent reading. There are entire libraries dedicated to preserving the experience of people imprisoned and killed for crimes of expression in the USSR and its satellites, written in their own words.
I don't know if you really intended to compare the imprisonment and murder of people for crimes of expression, religion, or ethnicity under authoritarian states to the PC movement in the West, but if you are, I have to question whether you actually experienced the former.