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Comment by Swizec | Hacker News Reader

I recently tried walking directions to JapanTown in SF on both Google Maps and Apple Maps.

gMaps took us to the restaurant on the shortest path - straight through the heart of Tenderloin. My girlfriend was sketched out as heck and almost made us take an Uber.

On our way back from the restaurant, we used Apple Maps. It took us on what looked like a longer route but lo and behold, it took a wiiiide berth around the Tenderloin. We saw not a single sketchy thing on our entire night time walk.

Don’t know if it was a coincidence or Apple Maps really has an “avoid seedy areas” model. The route was way simpler at least. 2 or 3 turns compared to gMaps’s 15

And grid geometry means Apple Maps was only 2min slower. But way nicer and easier to navigate.

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No need for explicit "avoid seedy areas" model. Just look where people prefer to walk (esp. people with iphones), and favor those streets in your algorithm.

> it took a wiiiide berth around the Tenderloin.

Next thing you know, (SF) City politicians are up in arms about why Apple is "blackballing" Tenderloin, and rake up past issues such as red-lining, ghettos, etc.

> On our way back from the restaurant, we used Apple Maps. It took us on what looked like a longer route but lo and behold, it took a wiiiide berth around the Tenderloin. We saw not a single sketchy thing on our entire night time walk.

Microsoft patented such an "avoid ghetto" idea year ago, but people got mad and called it racist:

https://www.npr.org/2012/01/25/145337346/this-app-was-made-f...

https://www.cnet.com/news/the-joy-of-microsofts-avoid-ghetto...

Because, as we all know, trying to avoid getting mugged or carjacked is racist.

My opinion: If the model is based on crime stats, it’s ok. If it’s based on demographics, it’s a problem.

I'm right there with you. A model based on race would be racist. The issue is that in urban areas, crime rate is often a good proxy for race (particularly when looking at, say, muggings or carjackings rather than white-collar crime). I consider that irrelevant, but as the two articles I linked show, the "disparate impact" type folks don't care about which stat is being used.

To be fair, most of SF’s seedy people are white drug addicts.

I've visited and I wouldn't say that is true. There is all kinds of seedy. There are white/skinny seedy people walking rats, kinda freaky. But taking the downtown bus gave equal race representation when someone started a fight with me over there bag's right to occupy my seat. The Asian gangs robbing/hitting people on the bart I was on showed a different side of seedy. The uniquely San Fran treat was someone asking my opinion on my beat poetry they wrote around race struggles. After commenting positively (just to be nice) said Poet offered to sell and when refused when on racial rant and become very aggressive.

It's a diverse place of seed and rich. It's a very future feeling place. The experience made me think this is a slice of what the future will look like. It's kinda has this dystopian gothic novel feel. The mini subways (barts) are automated and cool and look like they are in the future but look like they are falling apart too. You get this weird post apocalyptic feeling of a future that has come and gone but hasn't reached you yet

The Bart is designed to look automated, but it's one of the least automated transit systems around - There's a human driver on each train, station agents to watch the doors, and it's only the fact that they have nice recordings that makes it feel impersonal and automated.

They should get some nice recordings here in DC for the Metro system. They usually just have the drivers making announcements, and half the time I can't understand a word they said.

Yeah, no. BART doesn't have station agents watching the doors, and human drivers are a common occurrence on pretty much every subway system in the world.

I personally don't hold that opinion, but this could still be construed as racist.

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