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Comment by fxj | Hacker News Reader

> Broadcast television and radio.

At least not in Germany. Every household has to pay a monthly fee even if they dont want to. No opt outs possible.

And for music licenses there is GEMA which is also financed by additional charges on empty media like SDcards or Hard disks. Also no opt out possible. Google/youtube was fighting it and they finally lost the battle.

So in principle the IP Providers could be forced to pay a monthly fee for internet searches and social media. For mobile networks this is already discussed.

It seems that the EU doesnt like the free services from the SV giants and will fight them in the time to come. The GDPR was only the beginning. The next one will be more about the money.

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> At least not in Germany. Every household has to pay a monthly fee even if they don't want to. No opt outs possible.

Yes, but you can simply not pay that. I've been doing that for decades now. They send you scary reminders and say things like "Hurr durr, we are going to impount your wage!" but that's where it already ends. Just send them GDPR requests which they can't/won't reply to on a regular schedule and they are actually the ones that have to deliver/comply first before anything else.

Side note: My household and car are broadcast/radio free and I don't consume these on the internet either.

Of course you can, but it is illegal by german law. And german citizens do not like to commit illegal things. ;-)

You can if you don't use such services. Then it's legal.

That was previously. Since 2013 it is mandatory for each household (Exceptions for disabled, people on social security, etc.) as well as mandatory for business premisses.

The assumption is that everybody owns a media receiver (since computer+internet counts as well, as there is streaming) and since running the infrastructure is seen as a public service.

It's also illegal not to comply with GDPR. So they are in the same position at least.

GDPR doesn't mean you can force any organisation, state or private, to delete your information if you so desire.

If you have a legal obligation to pay a fee the government is obviously allowed to process your data for that purpose.

No one said anything about deletion. GDPR is more than that. They don't respond to general queries about saved data, which they are obligated to. See "right on access".

> Every household has to pay a monthly fee even if they dont want to

Even if you don't own any screen or audio devices they still make you pay for it. I always fail to see how this isn't pure theft.

> > Every household has to pay a monthly fee even if they dont want to

> Even if you don't own any screen or audio devices they still make you pay for it. I always fail to see how this isn't pure theft.

The rationales is that you are benefiting from that service (public information) indirectly (other citizens make more informed decisions) even though you don't use it directly.

And, realistically, which household does not own a device that is able to receive a video via a web site?

BTW, you don't need to pay the Rundfunkbeitrag if, among others:

«* you receive BAföG and do not live with your parents, * for recipients of unemployment benefit II or social allowance benefits, * for recipients of social welfare benefits or basic subsistence benefits ("Grundsicherung"), * for recipients of assistance to blind people according to § 72 German Code of Social Law XII.»

Source: https://www.studentenwerk-hannover.de/en/en-social/en-reduct...

That said, it is high time that these kind of levies get converted into normal taxes and progressively taxed like everything else. Why should the €30k/year household contribute as much to the public information as the €200k/year household?

The rationale behind not making it a tax is making it politically independent. If it were a tax any government could decide to just allocate the funds to other projects if they didn’t like the way they are portrayed on television. I’m very happy that it’s not paid for with tax money, otherwise we would just have uncritical state media.

If it's mandatory then make it a tax, like every other thing. This is kind of in limbo between tax and "you're not really obligated to pay, it's not illegal not to pay, but if you don't pay the state allow it to be processed by debt collectors".

It's like if you received a letter asking you 10 euros a month for building schools, another 15 euros for building new public buses, another 15 for a new train line. All these things are taken from your salary before it even reaches your bank account so why is this tv/radio thing any other way? We're already paying insane amount of tax in gerrmany, asking for 17 euros per months for thing like this on the side is an insult.

If all taxes were itemized like that it would probably lead to a lot more government accountability of how money is spent, and it would be a forcing function to create a budget ahead of time.

I'm sure there's a million issues I haven't thought of, but I like the idea.

Is it any different than when property taxes fund public libraries that you never use?

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