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Comment by jyounker | Hacker News Reader

On the other hand, the Japanese are inveterate umbrella thieves. So much so that you will find locking umbrella racks in many buildings.

The pressure has to go somewhere.

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They're pretty much communal when I visited Tokyo/Kyoto. Pretty much always left the building with a different umbrella than I entered with. Just about everyone uses the same $5-10 black/gray/white/clear umbrella. They all go into the umbrella bucket when you enter a building. Everyone just grabs one on their way out that's close enough to the same as the one the dropped in. Sometimes you leave a building and it's not raining anymore and people forget their umbrella behind. People even just leave them behind before getting on the train and take one from the stop where they get off.

Note that for this to work, people have to only take the umbrella you need. Not grab all of them and sell.

BTW: I'm really glad to hear this, because I've been having some regrets about grabbing random umbrellas in Tokyo, because everyone seemed to do it. Glad I did it right after all!

I can't even imagine the effort of stealing the office umbrellas and selling them being worth it.

Yeah, right? Who would buy them when you can just grab free umbrellas at every office?

Still, I'd expect this system to break down in most non-Japan places because of things like this.

Only grab an umbrella if you also deposited one! There’s nothing more annoying than to come out of a store and find all umbrellas gone.

While I was in Tokyo a couple months ago, I put my common black/clear umbrella in the ramen shop rack. Upon exit, I was forced to grab another as mine had been nabbed. I felt horrible grabbing someone else's umbrella (though I still did haha)! I feel relieved to learn this is ok.

The article hits on this, suggesting that they are viewed as communal property since they're so abundant, cheap and frequently forgotten. Umbrellas are also an on demand item, so can see how this could evolve as a sort of community solution to the rain problem.

I visited Japan and was caught in the rain with no umbrella. I hid next to an awning near a school. A person came out from inside and offered me to take an umbrella from the numerous ones that were left by the people inside.

I suspect "communal property" is a better way to think of what happens with umbrellas than "umbrella thieves".

I was in Japan last week and I can confirm that I forgot every umbrella I used -- I hope you got one of mine.

My family of 5 was caught walking back to our AirBNB in pouring rain during a trip to Tokyo. A man ran out of a FamilyMart (think 7-11), chased us down, and handed us umbrellas for the entire family. My first thought was, how nice of this gentleman to do this for complete strangers.

My second thought, how cheap am I for not walking my family in the store to buy the damn umbrellas myself?!

What is the rain problem? I live in the Pacific Northwest where it rains for 9 months out of the year. Our solution is to not use umbrellas at all. Everyone has a waterproof rain jacket.

In Seattle where it rains frequently but lightly, you really don't need an umbrella. But in places where it rains hard, umbrellas become a lot more desirable. A waterproof rain jacket won't help much in a torrential downpour. Maybe with a waterproof wide-brimmed hat as well, but chances are you'll still get drenched without an umbrella.

To put some numbers on it for perspective: Seattle is infamous for rain, but only averages 38 inches of rain per year. Miami, which is known for sunny beaches, averages 62 inches of rain per year. Tokyo gets 60 inches.

Plus, the raincoat doesn't mesh well fashion-wise with the suits everyone wears to work and uniforms for school. People dress very well in Japan.

>To put some numbers on it for perspective: Seattle is infamous for rain, but only averages 38 inches of rain per year.

I wonder if it has to do with duration vs. intensity. Long periods of drizzle might not be nearly as much total rainfall as short periods of downpour. From what I've seen of the PNW on my few trips there, it seems to drizzle a lot.

Yes, that's precisely the case. Seattle is perceived as very rainy because it's very often rainy. But rarely does it rain hard. Usually it drizzles so light it won't even mess up your hair.

In Japan and many other parts of East Asia, it rains most during the hottest months of summer. You don't wear jackets when it's 30+ °C and humid outside.

But after living in the region for many years, I agree people also tend to be a bit irrationally afraid of the rain.

Ah, but I suppose there are areas with bigger fears of rain. I was hitchhiking through spain and someone who picked me up was a wine farmer, who told stories of people not coming to work, because that day it was raining - in a different village.

I've had people cancel meetings with me in San Francisco 'because it was raining'. To be fair the roads here do become significantly more stressful then, but whenever it happens it feels ridiculous. My theory is that whatever the worst 1-2% of weather days per year becomes a weather excuse anywhere in the world. In the Phillipines it had to be bad typhoon, not just a normal one. In London it was moderate snowfall (that wouldn't cause a dent in switzerland for instance).

I remember my first visit to California. We were in Santa Cruz for work, and got down to the breakfast room in the hotel and the tv news talked about storms. We looked out and it was drizzling. Walked to the office and got slightly damp, and coworkers thought we were crazy.

Lived in Juneau Alaska years ago, and my first year there it rained every day except for three. Those three sunny days everyone called in sick and met down on the beach!

It's funny, in Japan, nobody wears sunglasses, but _everybody_ carries an umbrella. Basically the opposite in the US.

Generally the months with rain are the hotter ones - wearing a rain jacket would result in you sweating buckets

In Japan blue skies is the norm though. No clouds most of the time.

I find ppl who wear rain jackets smell (and look goofy)

Do they smell like rain?

Good old 'petrichor'[1], I've never noticed it emanating from a human. I wonder if geosmin is used in any fragrance-products though, or even if specific skin flora (bacteria) might produce it?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrichor?wprov=sfla1

Sounds like geosmin is actually not that pleasant on its own.. I like petrichor personally but can imagine the earthy aspect on its own might not be entirely pleasant.

No, BO. Anyway a astringent acidic smell. Like lactic acid.

I have a sensitive nose, and my office mate bikes into work 7 mi through hills in any type of weather. Good for him.

But, if he had to wear his rain coat, he smells. Even after he showers and keeps his gear in the lockers.

It’s nauseating.

It's too hot to wear a rain jacket in Japan. You'll get wetter from sweating than you would from jumping fully clothed into a pool.

> Everyone has a waterproof rain jacket.

PNW rain season is winter, summer is fairly dry.

Japan is the opposite, and quite a bit warmer than PNW (at least at Tokyo’s latitude). Sweating is a problem as is in summer clothes, rain jackets would be detrimental to health.

the problem? this:

So I was getting my hair cut at this cheap place, no appointments, no conversation, you sit on the bench, wait your turn, each time a chair frees up they pop the next person off the queue. ( _alright deque_ ) It's raining and cold, and it's Melbourne so bunches of black wet puffer jackets are dripping off the two coat racks.

person in : black puffer on the hook, person out : black puffer off the hook.

Then one guy starts screaming, 'who stole my jacket? it's a north face, it's a north face.'

He's flipping through the jackets throwing people's clothes on the floor, including mine so I'm a bit unhappy with him and I walk up get him to calm down.

we manage to pair each jacket with it's owner, and we've got one left - a black superdry jacket, with some nice bluetooth headphones in the pocket.

I'd seen the owner come and leave, I suggested he would realise and come back. He could leave his number. He's not happy with this, so I sugest he take the superdry jacket to stay warm and dry, leave his number, and if the guy comes back they can arrange to swap back.

At this point the screamer starts screaming that superdryguy obviously stole his jacket because north face is better, and he's going to take the superdry jacket and the headphones as 'compensation'.

Screams some random abuse about the absent guy as he launches back out into the street (no number left).

Two minutes later the superdryguy is back - wearing a north face jacket, the scene basically repeats with a new idiot screaming, this time that he is going to sue and something about rare headphones.

I don't think this happens in Japan. Must be the umbrellas.

A beat-up genic mamachari bicycle sometimes fits this pattern.

Left unsecured near a station, it might get "borrowed" by a drunken salaryman and discarded somewhere near his home a kilometre away.

Yeah.. I'd be wary of cooking up these cliched stories like the BBC. I remember being losing my cheap umbrella at the store. A woman who was happened to be coming out, upon seeing my predicament and on the rain pouring down, handed me some random umbrella from the bucket (or whatever that thing is called). I refused. So she proceeded to give me hers and then she took one from the bucket.

Umbrella's are really communal possessions in Japan. May be its a good thing, may be bad. However, this kind of silly reporting and patronizing 'cultural deconstruction' is really annoying to those of us in Asia who've subject to this for centuries on end.

Umbrellas are less like physical items and more like Higgs fields in Japan. They exist as a probabilistic continuum, and materialize when you need them.

Said another way: let go of the notion of “your” umbrella, and just accept that when you do occasionally purchase one, you’re inserting an umbrella into a broader system.

I’ve had people come running out of their houses to hand me umbrellas on a rainy day; they really are a social good.

There are other negative outlets. Evan Hadfield's "Rare Earth" has covered a couple of these:

- Japan's criminal justice system: https://invidio.us/watch?v=IRn4xzaugbk

- Japan's untouchables: https://invidio.us/watch?v=SIsndKkasfI

(There are of course positive elements, and Hadfield has covered those as well.)

Why umbrellas specifically? I read the article and I enjoyed it, but the question of why umbrellas are not treated the same in terms of being returned was mentioned but not answered. Near the end of the article, there is this sentence

> “Communal property is virtually unheard of except for that many people seem to regard umbrellas as up for grabs if not properly secured.”

Because when the rain comes down, it COMES DOWN HARD, and you NEED an umbrella NOW. I started doing the same after living there a few years.

Same thing with stealing crappy bikes with flat tires from the nearest bike rack to get home when you're drunk as a skunk at 3 am.

You can buy them everywhere for 300-1000 yen, those models are the ones that everyone uses so it isn't much of a sacrifice for everyone to buy another umbrella a few times a year.

an even more basic answer is that these super cheap umbrellas that everyone buys all look kinda the same, so it's hard to track your own umbrella unless you put some sort of sticker on it.

So it's not even necessarily a concious system, just the end result of easily being confused between umbrellas.

Yeah, everyone has a moment when they notice a wrong umbrella in their hand. Could happen immediately upon pickup or could happen later.

From there your view branches into the direction of either communal property idea or an internal shame/rage/regrets. So far I consider mine a personal property.

Is this for fancy umbrellas or any umbrella? I once lost a cheap plastic umbrella while visiting a castle, which I left for a minute to take a photo and it was gone, and I always assumed another tourist took it by mistake.

It’s because almost everyone uses the same umbrellas (cheap from a convenience store). Ive never had any other type taken.

It’s hard to tell which one is yours and it basically becomes an umbrella share pool. No big deal.

I’ve also had cases where I was caught in the rain and people tried to give me their umbrella.

This brings back strong memories from college. Everyone had black Northface zip-up jackets, so when you would go to a frat party, there would be a giant pile of jackets laid on the couches in the common room. At the end of the night, it was a crapshoot whether drunken party-goers actually found their jacket, or one of the dozens of identical ones.

The next afternoon, there would inevitably be a cascade of campus-wide emails asking for the return of jackets containing wallets/ids/keys.

The thrift shops did a strong business in supplying the most garish and distinctive "frackets" to combat this problem.

The hack here is to put distinctive stickers or something on them so anyone picking it up knows it's definitely not theirs. I've had the same umbrella in Japan for 4 years.

I really can't believe you've had a Konbini store umbrella for 4 years. They're really not that well made?

Yeah it's not holding up too well but it still keeps the rain off me!

That's interesting because when I visited I went to an onsen and my umbrella didn't fit the lock system. Then I thought, "What do I have to worry about? I'm in Japan. Nobody will steal it." 3 hours later and it was still there waiting for me.

Probably because it was not raining?

I only had mine with me because it was raining.

I noticed this the last time I was in Tokyo. This is a place where if a stranger saw me drop cash on the sidewalk, they would hunt me down to return it. So what's the deal with all the umbrella locks? TFA explains it.

I accidentally dropped many Yens coins in Tokyo last week and multiple individuals rushed to help me. I was literally shocked.

I also forgot my wallet with my passport beside an arcade game in Akihabara and someone found me inside the arcade to give it back to me before I even noticed it was lost.

Un-locked bikes, products outside of shops, etc.

Their "Trust" system is incredible. It would never work here in Canada.

I really enjoyed my 3 weeks in Japan.

Umbrellas are super cheap and readily available when you need one though.

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