Comment by braythwayt | Hacker News Reader

Comment by braythwayt | Hacker News Reader

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I’m not in favour of our penal system. I don’t think it does much more than provide “justice theatre.”

But as long as we’re showing that movie, right now it shows another man being arrested, and the police do not confiscate his cellphone.

He uses it in remand, and when it runs out of batteries, he asks for help charging it. He is then charged (npi) with illegally possessing a communications device in remand, and upon conviction for possessing a thing that was not confiscated from him, he was sentenced to twelve years in prison.

I’d rather not watch a movie where 9% of the citizenry of a country rots in jail with no expectation of changing their lives for the better when released, with them basically performing slave labour for corporations, and with little evidence it works to deter crime.

But if we are going to make this movie, it shouldn’t be a movie about only the poor citizens going to jail for misdeeds. The movie should show this broken concept of punishment being applied to all citizens, equally.

Reference for the cell phone in jail thing:

https://www.deepsouthvoice.com/index.php/2020/01/11/black-ma...

I agree with your sentiment, just not your delivery.

What's with the movie metaphor?

Are you familiar with the expression “security theatre?” It doesn’t keep people safe, but it provides enough of the appearance of safety to make people feel like we’re doing everything we can.

Justice theatre is the same thing. It doesn’t do anything about poverty or crime, but locking “scary people” up provides enough of the appearance of safety to make people feel like we’re doing everything we can.

The fact that it is theatre, and not real policy, helps explain why it’s so tilted against the poor. They’re the scary people.

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Theatre is the metaphor. Movie theatre, stage theatre, whatever you like. If you’d prefer not to use a metaphor, fine, but once a metaphor goes around a few times and people have a shared understanding of what it means, it provides a convenient shorthand for communicating something.

“Security Theatre” has achieved a certain success as a metaphor. I’m trying to tap into how the justice system resembles the air traffic security system and the bank’s five questions systems and so on.

Thanks for explaining. I think it's a little arbitrary as a metaphor but an interesting idea (I don't necessarily think "movie" when I think "theater"). I think it would have been clearer if you'd stuck to a single use. First we're showing the movie, then we're watching the movie, then we're making the movie. As a cognitive linguistic matter I'd probably consider those three different metaphors.

Useful feedback, thank you.

Ah, so it’s all about some twisted sense of fairness? If things suck for some, they should suck for everyone?

“Twisted” is an awful word to use when discussing justice being applied equally. If justice is not applied equally, it isn’t justice.

As I said right off the bat, I do not think it should suck for anyone, so if the argument is, “let’s fix the justice system by not making it suck,” you know you have a ready and willing ear.

The idea that rich people should go to prison just because poor people are going to prison is nothing but twisted.

None of those people should be going to prison, and in many sane countries they aren’t.

1. Nobody should go to our current implementation of "prison."

2. If #1 is unachievable, or while we're working on #1, poor people should not go to prison while rich people slide out of going to prison.

I don’t know why you have a lot of trouble with #2. It’s not like you can only argue for #1 or #2, and by arguing for #2, you give up the right to argue for #1.

It’s not a dichotomy.

Is the desire for justice really a "twisted sense"? Would you be ok with this "oh well" principle whenever someone wronged you in any way? Or do you have a list of "acceptable" exceptions that conveniently supports this approach and the current situation happens to be on it?

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