Hacker News Reader

Comment by jokowueu | Hacker News Reader

>The research shows that in 2017, alcohol proved to be even more deadly than illicit drugs, including opioids. That year there were about 70,000 drug overdose deaths — about 2,300 fewer than those involving alcohol,

>Only cigarettes are deadlier than alcohol: More than 480,000 people die each year in the U.S. because of smoking-related illnesses.

I didn't realise how much worse this is compared to the opioid epedemic .

View on HN

This is an abuse of statistics. I'm not trying to minimize alcohol, but it is like saying "putting up Christmas tree lights is more dangerous than BASE jumping"

On a population basis, putting up Christmas lights kills far more people than BASE jumping. But the danger from each activity in isolation isn't comparable at all.

Far more people drink and smoke than use opioids.

The relationship between opioids and cigarette smoking/vaping appears to be complicated, to complicate things.

I’d also argue that, on average, the negative impact of an opioid-related death is greater than that of a smoking-related death. The latter tends to manifest as chronic health issues that extend into old age. Terrible, yes, but these people have at least had relatively full lives with the opportunity to have children and be productive for most it. It’s more akin to obesity than a drug overdose.

Opioid-related deaths tend to involve the rapid destruction of lives, often of young people full of potential, culminating in sudden death due to overdose. Their friends and family then have to live with that horror for the rest of their lives. In terms of lost potential and the psychological trauma inflicted, there’s no comparison. It’s understandable that people consider opioids to be a worse problem than smoking.

> Far more people drink and smoke than use opioids.

Probably because they're seen as socially acceptable behavior, and are readily available for anyone to purchase.

It seems to me that nicotine, alcohol, and opiods are all related. The addictive personality traits that make you susceptible to one make you susceptible to the others. At a fundamental level, the willingness to do long-term harm to oneself for short-term pleasure is fundamental to all these problems. There are also a ton of cultural factors that make the problems interrelated.

> The addictive personality traits that make you susceptible to one make you susceptible to the others.

Maybe, but some people certainly have their "drug of choice".

And to add some perspective, 300000 deaths per year in us due to obesity and overweight.

I am curious how these interplay. Like liver disease and lung cancer are both long term effects from chronic use. If you smoke and drink alcohol, is one more likely to kill you than the other first?

Also I would have loved to have seen the median for this figure because as an average it’s astonishing

In the United States, 70.1% of the population aged 18 and older (about 173.3 million people) consumed alcohol in 2017, averaging approximately 3.6 gallons of pure alcohol per drinker, or about 2.1 standard U.S. drinks per day

Quite an eye opener. Yet, due to the enormous amount of money generated by the alcohol and smoking businesses, no one dares to go after them. Who care about people dying when there's so much money to be made?

Given the way most countries have moved against tobacco advertising, it's kind of fascinating that alcohol advertising is both allowed at all, and in many countries it is essentially totally unregulated.

When Canada legalized cannabis, the enabling legislation prohibited nearly all cannabis advertising. Producers are pretty much restricted to propagating their brand name. They most certainly can't have an ad that portrays cannabis users as sexy and cool.

Quebec went so far that selling clothing or bags with a cannabis leaf on them is now illegal. While that law is probably unconstitutional for its excessive restriction of free expression, it gives an insight into the mentality of the legislators, when it came to cannabis advertising.

And yet nothing stops Anheuser-Busch from proselytizing the message that getting drunk on Bud Light will get you showered you in women and make you the life of the party. Billboards, TV, Internet ads, radio, sponsorships.

Even the government alcohol monopoly advertises alcohol!

Anec-data here: in Russia, there are ads (TV and print) for beer, but only non-alcoholic beer.

> no one dares to go after them.

Prohibition doesn't count?

What about all the no-smoking-in-bars etc. laws?

And the warnings on the packaging?

The manufacturers don't do that voluntarily.

C'mon now.

With the numbers mentioned in the article, it's nowhere near sufficient to ban smoking in bars or other areas. It should be permanently banned from everywhere, and production should be ceased. Let's see them pass legislation to do that.

And prohibition was later repealed when they wanted the tax money, even though it had overall health benefits to society.

I think we're more-or-less on the same side: I would love to live in a world where smoking was a thing of the past.

In re: alcohol... I would hate to give up port. There's an argument there for the artistry of the brewer/vintner, but overall alcohol consumption is pretty vile.

But you said "no one dares to go after them" which is wrong, and set off my "wait, what?" reaction.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com