What?
Take a look at my response to the other guy. I clarified my point with a thorough example. Please note that I was somewhere else and on the phone when I typed my initial response so forgive me for the brevity and lack of clarity. Hopefully the new response will clear things up.
Anyway...
I think theres a good chance that you simply aren't grasping what the category theory fans are saying. Hopefully you grasped what I'm saying.
The OP said that there's no point in labeling an arbitrary type as a functor or monadic value. I'm going to use an example to illustrate how there is a benefit in being aware of this concept. I will be using a "String Monad" in my example.
Imagine you have some type, like in the initial example.
And you want to convert that type into another type.
I'll give you an arbitrary example using python:
You want to convert this: {1:2 ,3:4, 5:6, 7:8}
To this: [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8]
You can do this via loops or you can "lift" the dictionary type from "type space" to "string space" via the python functor str():
lifted_dictionary = str({1:2 ,3:4, 5:6, 7:8})
Then you do your type manipulations in "string space" rather then on the type itself. So it all ends up being string manipulation operations to get from the string "{1:2 ,3:4, 5:6, 7:8}" to the string "[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8]". I didn't use regexp in the example below but you get a huge performance boost if you use that instead.
lifted_array = "{1:2 ,3:4, 5:6, 7:8}".replace('{','[').replace('}',']').replace(':',', ')
#computed value is a string of the form: "[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8]"
array = eval(lifted_array)
Type conversion complete. The full code:
original_dict = {1:2 ,3:4, 5:6, 7:8}
array = eval(str(original_dict).replace('{','[').replace('}',']').replace(':',', '))
#value of array is [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8]
So in short I took types and lifted it into the String Monad or "String Category" or whatever you want to call it, then brought back down into types.
It seems like an arbitrary way to do type conversion but using regexp to do string manipulation in place of a for loop that unrolls the dictionary is more performant and faster. Think about preserving order as well. When I convert the dict type into string space, ordinal properties of the string itself will be enforced on the dict. SO the keys in the dict will follow the order they appear in the string as will the array string that it is converted to.
This technique utilizes category theory. The categories you are lifting to must be isomorphic to the origin category, you must understand the notion of functors (or monadic values) to really get it.
No, it doesn't. Category theory is not intrinsic to the development, use or explanation of this technique. Category theory is merely one possible framework for explaining why the technique works the way it does. That's an important distinction, and likewise it's not the most practical framework for understanding this technique by a long shot.
In particular, understanding why certain programming techniques are more performant than others virtually never requires the language and abstractions of category theory. Everything you're saying here is a further demonstration of the complaints others have voiced in this thread. Not because you're wrong - you're not wrong. Rather because it's just not the most practical way of understanding or leveraging most programming techniques, and it injects a significant amount of unnecessary abstraction and foreign mathematical terminology into discussion.
For what it's worth I have taken graduate math courses wholly and partly focused on category theory, so I have the background to follow what you're saying. It's essentially correct. But it's also obtuse and mostly inscrutable to other people. It reduces, rather than increases, the shared context software engineers leverage to understand each other. You can project a vast and magnificent theory of categories onto programming because it adheres to a variety of algebras, but at the end of the day it's just not clarifying anything further. Instead it's miring it in overcomplicated verbiage.
There's basically no reason for you to be explaining why a regular expression is faster than a for loop for this use case with the formalism of category theory, unless it's as an academic exercise just to show you can. Explaining this example with the language of functors and type spaces is like proving that Excel is Turing complete in order to explain how summing arbitrary rows in a column works.
No it's not intrinsic to the technique, you're right on this.
>There's basically no reason for you to be explaining why a regular expression is faster than a for loop for this use case with the formalism of category theory, unless it's as an academic exercise just to show you can. Explaining this example with the language of functors and type spaces is like proving that Excel is Turing complete in order to explain how summing arbitrary rows in a column works.
You're right on this as well. The category theory part I am using here is basically saying that you can "lift" the type into "string space" and do conversions in an isomorphic category. I am not trying to say that category theory will explain why regexp is faster. More like I'm just saying that categorical insight offers you alternative design choices to reach your goal. It is up to you to determine whether that path is performant.
>For what it's worth I have taken graduate math courses wholly and partly focused on category theory, so I have the background to follow what you're saying. It's essentially correct. But it's also obtuse and mostly inscrutable to other people. It reduces, rather than increases, the shared context software engineers leverage to understand each other. You can project a vast and magnificent theory of categories onto programming because it adheres to a variety of algebras, but at the end of the day it's just not clarifying anything further. Instead it's miring it in overcomplicated verbiage.
I'm not a mathematician, I'm the farthest thing from that, so hopefully my explanation is understandable to the layman as I, being a layman myself, can offer that perspective naturally. But you aren't wrong here. I can see how the vocabulary can confuse... BUT I am not trying to inject overblown concepts into what is otherwise a straightforward technique. This is not why I brought it up and it is not my intention. I'll explain. Read on.
>That's an important distinction, and likewise it's not the most practical framework for understanding this technique by a long shot.
Honestly, I found this technique by thinking in terms of category theory. I would not have come up with it had I not learned category theory. I stated that it uses category theory because that is what I myself used to come up with it.
That is the point I am trying to make. Categories personally helped me utilize a technique. And hopefully my anecdotal experience will lend some credibility to using category theory to help with programming. I am not trying to use the terminology to sound pedantic. Apologies if it seems that way.
And also note this notion of converting from one "space" to another "space" to have an easier time doing transformations is a common technique even outside of software. To cite another example: electrical engineers move between "signal space" and "frequency space" in order to better understand the properties of signals.
I know of no universal term for this conversion that covers the general idea other then the categorical term: "functor." At the very least, category theory introduces a vocabulary for Design techniques like this. Similar to "GoF Design Patterns" but more theoretical and formally defined.
Look the point isn't the python, the point is, the design pattern can be applied to many places and in some contexts it's faster in other contexts it is not, but the design pattern exists. My intent was to convey understanding of the pattern at a very general level. Not to argue about the validity of the python implementation.
original_dict = {1:2 ,3:4, 5:6, 7:8}
array = sum(map(list, original_dict.items()), [])
Also did you do your tests with regular expressions? I specifically mentioned I didn't use regexps but it would be dramatically faster if you used it instead of the replace method.
I'll reiterate the point. The point is there is a pattern you can follow where you can move from one "type space" into another "type space" then back because the other type space may be easier to write transformations.
Obviously from the this thread, the serialized type space may not be the best way for python. But there are many other contexts where this it is better and my point is, category theory allowed me to derive this general pattern. That's it.
[x for kv in d.items() for x in kv]In another comment, I came up with another example that uses the same pattern that uses a more "practical" example. I'll paste it below:
the goal is to convert:
{"1":"2", "3":"4", "5":"6"} to {6:1, 2:3, 4:5}
If you tried to do the above directly by manipulating the dictionary it would not be as straightforward. Use a functor to lift the dict into a list, do the rotation and use the opposite functor to lift it back down to a dict.