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Comment by snowedin | Hacker News Reader

I posted this in another thread, but it didn't get much traction. It's a serious question.

Isn't Snowden's book an auto-biographical memoir? Given this, is there really classified information contained in the book? Can someone who has read it give an example?

I've watched Snowden's Rogan interview, where he covers the material in the book, and I don't remember anything that was classified.

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It doesn't really matter, they can still use pre-publication review to jack you up by redacting even what is otherwise publicly available information and delay publication until the news cycle has moved on. The process is arbitrary and politicized, and widely considered to have become a First Amendment issue, which is not surprising, since the modern review process emerged in the 70s when the CIA was trying to mute public criticism by former employees of the lies, abuse, and failures of the Vietnam War.

[1] https://www.lawfareblog.com/path-dependence-and-pre-publicat...

[2] https://shadowproof.com/2019/12/18/us-government-censorship-...

Gotcha. The argument here is that it may be that there is no classified material in the memoirs, but it doesn't matter. The publication review process can be used as an effective censorship measure in any case.

Another commentator wrote something similar here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21837795

There's a thought experiment in that thread about whether or not pulling proceeds and profit is standard operating proceedure or really arbitrarity and politically applied. Do you happen to know if there are examples of this pattern and process being applied in non-politically motivated situations?

Arguably the judgement against the book by the Navy Seal in the Bin Laden raid was a non-politicized example. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/aug/24/matt-bissonnet...

Nice find, I think that's a good example.

I do remember some controversy around the publication, and the credit claiming between Bissonette and O'Neil, as well as some more sordid/gruesomeness details (stories about mutilating Bin Laden's corpse, details about his family not being armed but slaughtered nontheless). https://theintercept.com/2017/01/10/the-crimes-of-seal-team-.... In doing so the public information through these Seal members undid a good deal of the public narrative about the professionalism and nobility of the assassination.

Still, I think this is a good and recent example to show at least the Snowden case isn't the government reaching for a tool they don't use in other cases.

The Patraeus case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Petraeus#Criminal_charge...) is the best example I have of counter-evidence to that, as they didn't demand any of the fees from the memoirs - just a probation and probationary fine.

I've read it, and while it contains some interesting stories, he very clearly states in the opening chapter that there is nothing in the book that is classified in any way, nor should you expect to see them. It's more of his stories of how his mind changed over time and the culture of the cia/nsa and their private associated companies. If anything it seems to reveal (in an indicting kind of way) that what he did was achieved slowly (ie. Premeditated), rather than being a spur of the moment thing. Also, glaringly obvious is his love for his now wife, Lindsay. I found that her diary entries on the way she was treated was far more revealing and highly electric.

There is definitely some sensitive information in there. The government doesn't distinguish between classified information that is public knowledge, and still-secret classified information.

Regardless, their point is that Snowden did not send the book in for approval/redaction before publishing, as would be required of any former employee of a three-letter agency writing about such things.

If I've read your comment correctly there are two major points:

1. It's highly likely (you said definitely) given the person and subject that some information in the memoir is at least sensitive even if it is not classified, and there's an equally good chance there is some classified information.

2. The actual suit doesn't need the book to contain classified information, they can block it entirely based on process.

That's a good and helpful answer. It would be helpful to have substantial examples of (1).

(2) seems to be the thing that other commentators are claiming is being weaponized for soft-censorship (especially wrt Snowden not being in a position to use an internal three-letter-agency process to publish, and the fact that said three-letter-agencies would likely block publication using their internal processes).

Regarding (2) do you happen to know if there are just-the-government-following-standard-operating-proceedure and non-political examples of agencies blocking the proceeds of books/memoirs based on the process?

The example that comes to mind for me is Patraeus's memoirs - which was widely political and scandalous but still agencies did not seek to withhold profits from book sales.

Any examples of where (2) being used day-to-day as SOP?

1. For instance, he mentions a FISA court order referring to the NSA's interpretation of section 215 of the PATRIOT act--FISA documents are rarely unclassified (it's a secret court, after all), and secret interpretations by the NSA are just as likely to be highly classified.

2. Sorry, I'm not well versed in this area. I imagine Patraeus followed the rule when publishing his memoirs. Here are some links that might lead to what you're looking for:

https://www.al.com/news/2016/08/navy_seal_will_pay_68_millio...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/1999-10/12/078r-...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/04/02/these-forme...

Could they try to come after the money Rogan made on that podcast?

My understanding is yes.

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